Lummel Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Considering Blackfyres. If Aegon is a Blackfyre and Serra's son, who was Serra's mother or father and how can she be connected to the Blackfyres, on other evidence than looks?It's speculative, but we'd be looking for female descendants of the house who end up in a brothel after the death of Malys.Is it possible that Aerion Targaryen (the eldest of Maekar Targaryen's sons) had children after he was banished to Essos, and this Aegon may be descended from him?it is possible.Here's a question regarding the Blackfyres. Unless I'm mistaken, didn't they go extinct 100 years ago or so? Even if the female line did live on, don't you think someone would have realized there were Blackfyres walking around by now? I mean, look at how much trouble people have gone through to keep YG, a single person mind you, a secret for merely 19 years. Now imagine how much trouble people would have to go through to keep AN ENTIRE BLOODLINE under wraps for 100 YEARS. Personally, I feel the Blackfyre theory is a fun idea, but at the end of the day it's a lot simpler and more plausible to deem YG a Targaryen and not a Blackfyre.You are mistaken. Barristan killed Malys the Monsterous in the war of the nine penny kings, the Blackfish and Septon Meribald both served in the war of the nine penny kings so we are looking at about 35 to 40 years ago. Nor is any one trying to keep the bloodline under wraps, we are told that the it is extinct in the male line. remember that in AGOT there are two targaryens wandering around and no one is bothered about them until Dany becomes pregnant. The general feeling after the defeat of the Blackfyres probably was that they were a spent force and similarly not worth worrying about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanTasy Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Hmm again ... 'serra' and 'sierra' means the same. I'm going to look into earlier threads about Shiera Seastar and Serra - and Shiera's mum. Off to :read: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eejit Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 No, we don't know how loyal they are to their foundational goal. We do know that they're not a common sellsword company that breaks contracts for gain. We know that they've broken just one contract, and it's been for Aegon. So I don't think they're doing it just to put a grateful King on the Throne. No, but they could be doing it to regain their positions in Westeros. Something other contract breaks wouldn't get them. My point is we can't be at all sure that there's anything more than this motivating them, Blackfyre loyalty notwithstanding. Personally I think Aegon showing up with only the GC for support may well make him look like a Blackfyre pretender to other Westerosi. Surely a lot of characters should have the same suspicions many fans now have. I'm just not sure whether that appearance is accurate or why Griff and pals haven't considered that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 No, but they could be doing it to regain their positions in Westeros. Something other contract breaks wouldn't get them.My point is we can't be at all sure that there's anything more than this motivating them, Blackfyre loyalty notwithstanding. Personally I think Aegon showing up with only the GC for support may well make him look like a Blackfyre pretender to other Westerosi. Surely a lot of characters should have the same suspicions many fans now have. I'm just not sure whether that appearance is accurate or why Griff and pals haven't considered that.True showing up with just the Golden Company for support could raise questions, but he will also have JC by his side, one of Rhaegar's closest friends. Also based on the chapters that have already been revealed for TWOW, it appears Aegon will soon acquire the support of the entire nation of Dorne.What I'm wondering is if Aegon really is a Blackfyre, does he know? He seems pretty convinced that he's Rhaegar's son and it appears the people around him haven't told him otherwise. How do you think he'll feel if he finds out that after all the trouble he went through to get back to Westeros and raise his flags, that he is just an imposter? Personally I would feel crushed and betrayed.Everyone has made compelling arguments for Aegon being a Blackfyre, but I still feel the theory is based on A LOT of speculation and that in the end he is a Targaryen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anwar Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I still think he might be a descendant of Aerion Brightflame, maybe even of Aerion's legitimate son (who disappearaed into the annals of history). If so, that would mean he has a better claim to the Throne than any child of Aerys Targaryen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanTasy Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I still think he might be a descendant of Aerion Brightflame, maybe even of Aerion's legitimate son (who disappearaed into the annals of history). If so, that would mean he has a better claim to the Throne than any child of Aerys Targaryen.Well you have a point here. In SSM there is stated that he went to Lys and that Dany may have relatives there.Nothing conclusive in the appearances as given in the wiki.ETA For the better claim ... I doubt this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anwar Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 He was Aegon V's and Maester Aemon's older brother, and would have gotten the Throne if he hadn't killed himself drinking fire. For some reason his son (who should have been the next in line) wasn't even considered when they chose Aemon (who refused) and then Aegon V.Shouldn't that son, and his descendents, be the rightful heirs to the Iron Throne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevumar Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 He was Aegon V's and Maester Aemon's older brother, and would have gotten the Throne if he hadn't killed himself drinking fire. For some reason his son (who should have been the next in line) wasn't even considered when they chose Aemon (who refused) and then Aegon V.Shouldn't that son, and his descendents, be the rightful heirs to the Iron Throne?I think when the Great Council was called to settle the succession, and they passed over his son, that probably annulled any rights of inheritance that line was thought to possess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Jeor Mormont told Jon that the coucil didn't want any child of Aerion's on the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anwar Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 If it's that easy to disinherit the next-in-line and annul his specific branch of the family any inheritances, could they have done something similar during the War of the 5 Kings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevumar Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 If it's that easy to disinherit the next-in-line and annul his specific branch of the family any inheritances, could they have done something similar during the War of the 5 Kings?I guess it's possible, but the Council was called when there wasn't a war raging among rival claimants to the Iron Throne. The lords generally seemed to agree that the Targaryen dynasty should continue, but that the circumstances were extraordinary enough to require some intervention in deciding the succession. I don't think it's an event we're likely to see happen often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anwar Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I suppose the whole Maekar-Aerion-Aemon-Aegon thing is why the Targaryens after Aegon V decided to have fewer children: Jaeherys II only had two kids (Aerys and his sister-wife) to keep the succession thing simple, but then Aerys started to break with that by having three kids (2 sons, 1 daughter he never knew) but then again Viserys and Daenerys were after he lost his mind (IIRC). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I'm under the impression that the Great Council nullified any claim a son of Aerion's would have had. He would have been written out of the succession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlowrites Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I'm rather new to the forum but am loving reading all the speculation!What if baby Aegon was switched but isn't who we're being led to believe? So the Aegon who thinks/claims he's the rightful heir isn't (mummers dragon..) but that baby is alive and was raised elsewhere? Remember Gillys had to take a baby who wasn't hers and pretend that it was....Wouldn't Jon Snow be Aegon's age? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jem Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I'm rather new to the forum but am loving reading all the speculation!What if baby Aegon was switched but isn't who we're being led to believe? So the Aegon who thinks/claims he's the rightful heir isn't (mummers dragon..) but that baby is alive and was raised elsewhere? Remember Gillys had to take a baby who wasn't hers and pretend that it was....Wouldn't Jon Snow be Aegon's age?I'm always happy to support any crazy baby swap theory that is going! And I do think that it may have been possible for the Aegon that was switched wasn't ever Aegon to start with.But there is no way that Jon could be Aegon, if that is what you are implying. Aside for there being way too many clues to indicate R+L=J, Aegon was at least a year or so older than Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Swaggering Bravo Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Yeah, but I think one of the main theories out there is that Serra, Illyrio's wife, was actually a Blackfyre (I think she was described as having the right coloring?), and that she's the mother of Aegon. This could be why Illyrio appeared so disappointed when Aegon didn't come to meet him when he saw Tyrion off.She had blond hair and blue eyes. She was also a Lysene. Not a Blackfyre, and she didn't have any traits Aegon does. Neither does he have any from Illyrio. And Jon Connington's chapters falsify that. If this is the 'main theory' then I can see why it hasn't convinced me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anwar Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Then maybe she's descended from Aerion Brightflame instead, since he was in Lys and may have fathered children while there. He could be her grandfather/great-grandfather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch-MaesterPhilip Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I thought about Aegon being a descendant of Aerion Brightflame the moment I finished The Hedge Knight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweetRobin4Life Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I'm from the "Serra is a Blackfyre and Aegon is Illyrio's son" school of thought but not because Varys or Illyrio have any Blackfyre sympathies. When Tyrion is staying in Pentos Illyrio describes how him and Varys had a scam; Varys would steal stuff and Illyrio would "find it" for rewards. If anything, this installing of Aegon is another scam. They "find" the true heir and are rewarded for it. Also, read the chapter where Illyrio sends off Tyrion to Duck. He gets teary eyed and says that he's saved candied-ginger for the boy since he likes it so much. I believe that Illyrio truly loves his son and wants whats best for him. Since Illyrio cam from nothing to become a magistar why shouldn't his son rise even higher to the rank of King? Varys can't have a son, so I can see him taking on Aegon as a surrogate son and making this plan up to help his life-long friend and the boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 At this point in the story, all naysayers are reacting emotionally/wildy speculative. They come up with "too late in the story" or "his appearance is a red herring" type arguments. Interestingly, genetic traits are what made jon arryn and ned realize that joff was an abomination of incest in GoT. I don't see anyone doubting the significancebof gendry's physical traits as they do with Aegon. Or what about arellas' widow peak as a reference to Oberyn? It seems that people pick and choose when it comes to physical appearence.There is nothing in the text to indicate he is fake.Per GRRM "Elizabeth Taylor had violet eyes and she wasn't a Targaryan". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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