harrenhall

[NotToday]

Harrenhal could be used as the capital of a post-war, united westeros. It is more centrally located than KL, less vulnerable by attack from the sea (like KL, Oldtown, Lannisport, White Harbour, GullTown), away from the influence of the faith (no Great sept of Baelor or fanatic high septon), away from angry civilian mobs. The fact that it is a fortress rather than a major city would work to its benefit, as the rulers would not be requird to try to feeed the masses in time of seige, and there would be no fear of riots, as has been happening in KL. As for the bleakness of the place, I'm sure it can be made more palatial and luxurious if someone bothered spending some money. Also, the Riverlands were never truly a kingdom of their own in the first place, they could simply be merged with the corwnlands. This way, the royal family would actually have control of a substantial amount of resources so that ever petty lord with an army wont be able to overthrow/threaten them.

Of course, atm the riverlands are completely ravaged, with hardly any provisions to last the winter. Keeping Harrenhal supplied with food and fodder would be next to impossible. As such, neither Dany, nor stannis, nor Ageon would bother capturing it and using it as a base of operations. If anything, little finger can make the best use of it. He seems to be rather adept when it comes to matters of business and economics.

[Tyler Snow]

Harrenhal could be used as the capital of a post-war, united westeros. It is more centrally located than KL, less vulnerable by attack from the sea (like KL, Oldtown, Lannisport, White Harbour, GullTown), away from the influence of the faith (no Great sept of Baelor or fanatic high septon), away from angry civilian mobs. The fact that it is a fortress rather than a major city would work to its benefit, as the rulers would not be requird to try to feeed the masses in time of seige, and there would be no fear of riots, as has been happening in KL. As for the bleakness of the place, I'm sure it can be made more palatial and luxurious if someone bothered spending some money. Also, the Riverlands were never truly a kingdom of their own in the first place, they could simply be merged with the corwnlands. This way, the royal family would actually have control of a substantial amount of resources so that ever petty lord with an army wont be able to overthrow/threaten them.

Of course, atm the riverlands are completely ravaged, with hardly any provisions to last the winter. Keeping Harrenhal supplied with food and fodder would be next to impossible. As such, neither Dany, nor stannis, nor Ageon would bother capturing it and using it as a base of operations. If anything, little finger can make the best use of it. He seems to be rather adept when it comes to matters of business and economics.

This is a very high possibility. I also think, if Westeros is united again, you are going to see the abolition of house armies and the consolidation into a standing Imperial army garrisoned in Harrenhal. Large enough where if you were pooling men and materiel from the seven kingdoms they could fit in the vast keep. That is what I would try to do with it anyway.

[Lady Octarina]

This is a very high possibility. I also think, if Westeros is united again, you are going to see the abolition of house armies and the consolidation into a standing Imperial army garrisoned in Harrenhal. Large enough where if you were pooling men and materiel from the seven kingdoms they could fit in the vast keep. That is what I would try to do with it anyway.

This makes perfect sense. I mean, ASoIaF always seemed to be based in the last centuries of the Middle Ages, and what was happening back then? Different lands and lords were uniting under the same king. I think that was the process during Aegon's conquest - Aegon would be something like Charlemagne, and Westeros his empire. Now the Targaryens fell, we have "feudalism" for a while, and, finally, new modern states emerge from the ruins of the old empire, more or less respecting the old divisions. So, yes, it makes perfect sense that a centralized army is on its way, and whoever gets Harrenhall will be in a strategic position to consolidate their own kingdom - but not necessarily the whole of Westeros. I would be willing to bet they get the Riverlands, part of the Westerlands, the crownlands, and maybe Baratheon lands as well, depending of who survives all this.

[Tyler Snow]

True, the ability to centralize the military is going to depend on the amount of devastation that befalls each of the great houses. We've already seen the Starks, Tullys, Baratheons, and Lannister hosts become decimated and weakened. The Tyrells, Arryns, Martells, and Ironborn (as of yet) still maintain most of their secular strength but it looks like the Tyrells and Ironborn are on their way to decimating each other, leaving the Vale and Dorne as the two unscathed powers. Again, so far.

The crux to letting a unified military form is, of course, The Others and the threat from the North. An external threat of that magnitude would force the land to unite or be utterly destroyed and, in this unification is the perfect chance to mold these tattered armies into a cohesive, Imperial force. After that, simply don't relinquish it OR hope that the realization that a fragmented kingdom dependent upon the jealousies and prejudice of seven kingdoms cannot stand against such a threat.

Of course you can always help the land see this through hostages, appointing govenors or supervisors with Imperial garrions and newly established outposts. But Northmen in Dorne, Dornish in the North, Tullys in the Vale, etc to eliminate that hometown sympathy. Easier said than done, I know, but Harrenhal could definitiely be used as the sort of Imperial academy for Military tacticians and training. I'm thinking like a medieval West Point in America and what not.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

A monstrous keep that is too big to garrison effectively and too costly to maintain. It also has some of the richest lands in all of Westeros. What is one to do with such a place?

I still think it will be granted to the ironmen. It makes a logical seat for Dany and Victarian in my opinion. As Asha pointed out, the old ways are dead and the ironborn need land to make the much needed transition to more modern society. The ironmen ruled the Riverlands before Aegon and the Tully's must pay for their rebellion in some way. I can see Riverrun being returned to House Tully, but Victarian being named Lord Paramount of the Trident.

[Dpool]

I think dany will take up residence there a short while, while she sacks kings landing. Harrenhal seems like a motel of sorts. I have no clue what would happen to it after she takes it. Possibly like you guys were mentioning above

as it acting like a central "hub"

[feardeathbywater]

Well, let's see. It's an enormous castle, ruinous to heat and keep intact, partially destroyed three centuries ago. Oh, and cursed. No one seems able to hold it too long, generally coming to sticky ends. There are wide, productive lands attached to it. Much blood has been shed there, many evil deeds performed. The location isn't too bad, assuming its on the lakefront itself and not inland too much...the Eye is big enough you would think some kind of water traffic could be developed; especially if someone had the sense to cut a canal between the Eye-Blackwater basin and the Trident...I think Harrenhal has enormous potential as a center of government. I think Black Harren must have meant for it to hold a standing army, a fortress from which he could hold central Westeros, a staging area where he would mass ever larger armies and accumulate supplies for campaigns against the rest of the continent. Perhaps if Harrenhal had remained his capitol a city would have grown up around it as Kings Landing grew up around the Red Keep. As it stands, I doubt anyone but the throne would be able to hold it without getting into trouble. Held by a High Lord or vassal it invites ambition; while in war it can tie down an army (occupying or besieging.) Or the Faith Militant could turn it into a citadel-town, etc. if their new orders survive.

In the immediate future it would be more effective as a refugee camp for the riverlanders: they could gather around and within the walls and be protected from bandits and broken men (not to mention wolves.) Food and supplies could be sent to the one central location much more efficently than to a hundred strongholds and ruined villages in unsafe territory. Maybe Bonifer Hasty will have the sense of humanity to set up something like this. Later on, it might serve as a refuge from the Others' invasion of southern Westeros.

[Frey Pie]

Well the possibiliteis discussed do make sense....perhaps Arya will return sometime to put her ghosts to rest. Thing is how ruinous is it? I know Tywin lived there and so did the Whents,Lothsons etc. I dont know that it can be renovated or does large parts of it need to be knocked down and rebuilt.

A military school does seem appropriate

[TheColdWinds]

Sandor is going to end up rebuilding harrenhall and restoring it to a proper state. He will repent for his sins, join the battle, and be rewarded harrenhall after burning cleganes keep to the ground. The curse will end.

[Lord Bear Mormont]

The Ghost of Harrenhall needs to return. It would be cool if Cersei ended up going there for some reason and Arya assassinates her there.

[Victaerys Ironfist]

I do find myself wondering...if the Wall falls and the Others head south, Harrenhall might be a good 'last place' to make a stand.

Maybe, although Harrenhal isn't exactly a very symbolic location or that dear to any reader's hearts. If there were to be a "last stand" most likely it may be in a place like Winterfell (it's got the name!)

[Lord Bear Mormont]

Sandor is going to end up rebuilding harrenhall and restoring it to a proper state. He will repent for his sins, join the battle, and be rewarded harrenhall after burning cleganes keep to the ground. The curse will end.

That would be cool!

[The Bastard of Walton]

I can see Harrenhal being the last battle against the others....Yes it has been to big for anyone lord to hold, but I think they will all be brought togerther by Jon and Dany.

[Lord Damian]

If, IF the kingdoms unite again under one ruler, the Capital should be moved to Harrenhal and there should be major demoliton and reconstruction of the ruins to build a memorial to the dead during the Conquest (my opinion on appeasing and honoring the spirits believed to haunt the place) as it is in the most perfect location for a unifying capital of Westeros. But, it is not going to happen.

[EgoistMusketeer]

I think Harrenhall will host Dany's first battle as she returns to Westeros. I'm not sure who will garrison it, maybe lannisters, or iron born or tyrells but prob not notherners. Anyway the battle will end with Drogon burning Harrenhall to the ground, finishing the job Balereon the black dread began and bringing Harrenhal's history full circle. (Also introducing the conquering dragons in grand fashion)

[EgoistMusketeer]

I think Harrenhall will host Dany's first battle as she returns to Westeros. I'm not sure who will garrison it, maybe lannisters, or iron born or tyrells but prob not notherners. Anyway the battle will end with Drogon burning Harrenhall to the ground, finishing the job Balereon the black dread began and bringing Harrenhal's history full circle. (Also introducing the conquering dragons in grand fashion)

[Archmaester Marwin]

Harrenhal is cursed. Every house that ever held it came to ruin. Harren himself, Strongs, Lothstons, Whents. The only man to hold it during the war still alive is Roose Bolton and he most likely won't live much longer.

Anyone with an ounce of sense would burn it, level it and sow the ground with salt.

And how would one burn it? Balerion the black dread, Meraxes and Vhagar (maybe not all 3, I forget) could only warp the towers with their dragonflames, and they were the biggest dragons in recorded history.

As for pulling it down, that would require a titanic effort with little gain. The thing is colossal, totally megalithic in structure. It would be like trying to pull down the pyramids of egypt or something.

Harrenhaal is here to stay unfortunately

[Archmaester Marwin]

I think Harrenhall will host Dany's first battle as she returns to Westeros. I'm not sure who will garrison it, maybe lannisters, or iron born or tyrells but prob not notherners. Anyway the battle will end with Drogon burning Harrenhall to the ground, finishing the job Balereon the black dread began and bringing Harrenhal's history full circle. (Also introducing the conquering dragons in grand fashion)

Umm, just looking at a map I don't see why Harrenhaal would be Dany's first battle

[EgoistMusketeer]

Umm, just looking at a map I don't see why Harrenhaal would be Dany's first battle

Okay, maybe not first but prob a major one.

[The King of Worms]

I think Harrenhall will host Dany's first battle as she returns to Westeros. I'm not sure who will garrison it, maybe lannisters, or iron born or tyrells but prob not notherners. Anyway the battle will end with Drogon burning Harrenhall to the ground, finishing the job Balereon the black dread began and bringing Harrenhal's history full circle. (Also introducing the conquering dragons in grand fashion)

Drogon the Black Dread is the only one who could truly hold Harrenhal. I think it is a perfect location for a dragon lair.