Petyr Middlefinger Baelish Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 There's emo, and then there's letting your wife and children be raped and murdered so your mistress can be protected.Neither of which I find sexy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Swaggering Bravo Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 It's a case of folks remembering a dead guy better than he really was. They're really just thinking "Oh, how nasty things have become but Rhaegar was so nice I'm sure it'd be better if he were alive."If Robert had died in the Rebellion I'm sure folks would think of him as a noble man who would've lead them to a glorious new era if he'd lived.Except that Cersei once remarked how her father Tywin was cheered for twice as much as Aerys, but only half so much as Rhaegar, who was beloved by the smallfolk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elaena Targaryen Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 So um...He's so dreamy :wub: Yea me too. It really don't know why, I have no logic behind it, but I quess that is what it means to crush on some one. I am biased so I will not argue, and I am reserving my judgement untill there is more information, gods but I hope I'm not let down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Swaggering Bravo Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I think you mean the Battle of the Bells there. Otherwise agreed, and further, there is no real indication to my knowledge that Rhaegar had any good idea as to what was going on in KL and points north until after that. Perhaps Rhaegar could/should have predicted that things would deteriorate politically in the wake of Lyanna's "abduction" but there are too many unanswered questions as to just what he knew was going on and what he thought everyone knew about Lyanna.Yeeah sorry about that. Should have realized that a Prince wouldn't be fighting in a battle unless it was previously deemed a rather large threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lykos Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I think it´s his dark dramatic brooding in Summerhall, his prowess in the Tourneys and mostly his hheartbreaking songs.I came to question his character lately and haven´t made up my mind yet.I posted this in another good thread:What did Rhaegar read, when he changed to become a fighter/ started to believe he was TPtwP.Did he just engage with Lyanna to sire the 3. head - or - did he justify his love for her with the necessity for a 3 headed dragon.I want to question Rhaegars nobility, because I think him a calculating character. And I want to know what he read.ETA:5 new posts since I posted this. :whip: type faster! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfish Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 There's emo, and then there's letting your wife and children be raped and murdered so your mistress can be protected.Neither of which I find sexy.Rhaegar did not "let his wife and children be raped and murdered." Yes, he apparently sent three Kingsguard to defend Lyanna, but Elia had an army as well as four Kingsguard knights protecting her before the Trident. Criticize Rhaegar all you want, but at least use valid criticisms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasha Steelsong Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Rhaegar did not "let his wife and children be raped and murdered." Yes, he apparently sent three Kingsguard to defend Lyanna, but Elia had an army as well as four Kingsguard knights protecting her before the Trident. Criticize Rhaegar all you want, but at least use valid criticisms.Not only that but Rhaegar was dead before Elia and the children, so how exactly was he to stop it from beyond the grave? The charge that he "let his wife and children be raped and murdered" suggests that he had the ability to stop it, when that was impossible since he was dead and died actually trying to protect his family (crazy dad, wife, kids, mistress-maybe 2nd wife, family legacy, the whole lot). I agree that Rhaegar made some questionable choices that certainly played a part in how events unfolded during the rebellion, but if I lay the blame for Elia and the children's deaths at anyone's feet other than the Lannisters (and they are the ones that unasked murdered Elia and her children) it would be Aerys for not allowing Elia to leave with the Queen and Viserys. Aerys was the one who was essentially holding Elia hostage to keep Dorne loyal, not Rhaegar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 He made a tremendous, stupid, irresponsible mistake but he was supposed to be an honorable and love worthy guy that people respected and loved because that is how he is remembered/depicted.Honestly it is a bit curious why he is viewed so fondly because even if he was most of the time a good guy, and might have made a good king, his actions did have significant negative consequences. Of course his crazy father's reaction more so. He should have done no kidnapping and just waited his crazy father to die. Once he was King he could properly try to follow the prophecy if he cares so much about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val the Wildling Princess Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 There's emo, and then there's letting your wife and children be raped and murdered so your mistress can be protected.Neither of which I find sexy.I get it, You don't like Rhaegar, I do, and that's fine. But I'm sure Rhaegar never thought Elia and the kids were unprotected in KL. It wasn't Rhaegar who killed and raped Elia, or who smashed Ageon's head against a wall or stabbed Rhaenys half a hundred times, it was Tywin Lannister, Gregor Clegane and friends. Rhaegar was dead by the time Elia and the kids were killed. By the way, the Kingsguard swear an oath, to protect the King, I doubt that three members of the KG would remain at the Tower of Joy just cause Rhaegar had ordered them to protect his "mistress" and so they said to Ned "the Kinsguard does not flee, we swore a vow". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansnow Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 After thinking about it, it could be that Robert raped Lyanna sometime after Harrenhal, here is why I think this:What was Robert's reaction to Lyanna being wooed by Rheager? Knowing what we know about Robert, I doubt he just shrugged off the advance. That was a direct hit to his honor. I noticed no one mentions this when talking about it. Everyone thinks that Robert was at the Vale, but what if he wasn't? Robert is know for violence and drinking, so it's possible.Robert was there "Robert had been jesting with Jon and old lord hunter as the prince circled the field after unhorsing ser. Barristan..." Ned remembers it in his last POV, unfortunately he gives no insight into Roberts reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noimporta Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Except that Cersei once remarked how her father Tywin was cheered for twice as much as Aerys, but only half so much as Rhaegar, who was beloved by the smallfolk.So was Robert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I wonder if Rhaegar had the madness in him. Not completely like his father but somewhat. I think Danny has the taint and I wouldn't be surprised if this guy too wasn't completely sane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Swaggering Bravo Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 So was Robert.My post wasn't arguing that Robert wasn't beloved by the smallfolk for a brief time. My post replied to someone saying that Rhaegar was only remembered because people have fond memories of those who died (You can see the truth in that by asking anyone about Aerys.). I pointed out that this was not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeksi Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Yeah, this pretty much sums up why I think Rhaegar was a dick, and why he tops the list of my least favourite characters :PSaying that, I wouldn't necessarily agree with the Robert part of the argument- he was, after all, not exactly faithful himself. I don't think one needs to prove that Robert is honourable/ whatever to prove that Rhaegar made a dick move. He could have guessed this would start a civil war- the Starks are not going to stand by and see Lyanna's reputation be ruined and their honour be tarnished, even if they don't believe she has been taken against her will, they're going to have to act like this to preserve appearances. Same with the Baratheons. And with Rhaegar's crazy dad on the throne, it's not a wonder it went so spectacularly to hell.I still hold that, whatever Rhaegar's good points, I find it impossible to believe that amongst all the people blaming the Mad King, blaming the Lannisters for the sack of King's Landing, calling Robert the Usurper, etc. not one person resents Rhaegar for starting the whole damn mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizaMartell Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I have mixed feelings about Rhaegar. On one part he is a tragic character which I quite enjoy analysing. On the other hand I cannot start squeeing over the 'star crossed romance' he supposedly had with Lyanna when considering how this might have impacted Elia. People go on about their (L + R) supposedly epic fairytale romance without considering how much Rheagar shat on Elia Martell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anwar Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Yeah, for all this talk of Rhaegar and Lyanna being a tragic love they all seem to forget that the ultimate victim of the whole thing was Elia Martell. She had no say over anything that happened in every scenario (whether Lyanna was kidnapped or eloped) and she still suffered a horrible death after witnessing the death of her infant children.Aerys, Rhaegar and (possibly) Lyanna made their own choices and suffered for them, but Elia could do nothing and still paid for THEIR actions. Poor woman, and even if it was a political marriage all hints point to Rhaegar actually coming to care about her and love her regardless. I mean, Ned and Catelyn were a political marriage but that didn't stop them from falling in love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch-MaesterPhilip Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I wonder if Rhaegar had the madness in him. Not completely like his father but somewhat. I think Danny has the taint and I wouldn't be surprised if this guy too wasn't completely sane.I think the madness begins to manifest itself later in a good number of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hear Us Roar Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 We barely know anything about Rhaegar only 2nd hand info from women and men who were in love with himhe died an untested young manwe just don't know anything. He was stupid to take lyanna though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevumar Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Yeah, for all this talk of Rhaegar and Lyanna being a tragic love they all seem to forget that the ultimate victim of the whole thing was Elia Martell. She had no say over anything that happened in every scenario (whether Lyanna was kidnapped or eloped) and she still suffered a horrible death after witnessing the death of her infant children.Elia was undoubtedly a pawn and a victim in this, but it's also possible that Rhaegar talked with her about his burning desire to have another child in pursuit of his prophecy hobby. She may or may not have consented, but we just don't know. Nobody recounts how she felt about it or how much she knew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevumar Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 he died an untested young manOther people have already discussed the tragic qualities of Rhaegar and why they contribute to such an enduring fascination with him, but the untested part is just as important, in my opinion. Rhaegar had a lot of potential, an air of mystery, and an array of vague but hopeful plans. The fact that he died when he did and in the manner that he did ensures that the potential remains there for people to shape into whatever fantasy they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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