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Rhaegar : Why the lovin' ?


FirstSwordofBraavos

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Aegon V does seem like one of the more decent and/or sane ones, until one remembers that he burned down the family summer residence trying to hatch a dragon egg. :shocked:

Er, I wasn't under the impression that he burnt Sumemrhall intentionally. "sorcery and treason" - I believe the fire was the result of the latter.

She might simply not have known until later, or might have been too delicate in her pregnancy to travel. I doubt she blamed Rhaegar personally for the deaths, and possibly realized that there was nothing she could do to fix it so it was best to stay put.

Even if she decided to return to her family, it would have changed nothing, Robert and Ned were already rebels under the penalty of death and had to fight no matter what.

Well, you know, she did walk into a raging funeral pyre holding a bunch of rocks because she had a good feeling about it.

She had placed the eggs on the pyre and walked into the fire only afterwards.

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Er, I wasn't under the impression that he burnt Sumemrhall intentionally. "sorcery and treason" - I believe the fire was the result of the latter.

We don't really know what happened, but it's implied that Summerhall burned down because Aegon V was trying to hatch dragon eggs. So based on that impression, and until we know exactly what happened, I reserve the right to put Summerhall in Aegon's "negative" column until I learn otherwise.

Even if she decided to return to her family, it would have changed nothing, Robert and Ned were already rebels under the penalty of death and had to fight no matter what.

You're preaching to the choir.

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Aegon V does seem like one of the more decent and/or sane ones, until one remembers that he burned down the family summer residence trying to hatch a dragon egg. :shocked:

Is the story of Summerhall that solid? Do we actually know what happened, who did what, and who was trying to do what?

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Is the story of Summerhall that solid? Do we actually know what happened, who did what, and who was trying to do what?

See my post above yours. If the story turns out to have unfolded differently, I will formally apologize for slandering Aegon V. As it stands he's still the Targ I'd most like to live under, after maybe Jaehaerys I or Viserys I.

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After thinking about it, it could be that Robert raped Lyanna sometime after Harrenhal

Although it's possible, from the way Robert longed and remembered and wanted her, they all gave me impression that he had never laid hands on her. Let alone starting a war or the whole "kill Rhaegar everynight" thing. Those are characteristic of a man so pocessed and blind with love. I had a hard time imagining such man raping the one he adored so much.

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And I thought my first thread would go unnoticed :crying:

People are arguing that Aerys started the war . And yes, it was the murders that pushed the button on a ticking time bomb. And who started the countdown ? Rhaegar.

And yes, he was the dreamy, poetic, musical, All-American American kind of figure. But his actions were so differrent to his characterization ! One poster argues that his marriage with Elia was political. So ? This does not mean that he can cheat on her !

And if he can plunge the Realm into war to fulfill a prophecy, then I stand by my assertion that he would have pushed 'The Prince That Was Promised' into the line of succesion.

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And I thought my first thread would go unnoticed :crying:

People are arguing that Aerys started the war . And yes, it was the murders that pushed the button on a ticking time bomb. And who started the countdown ? Rhaegar.

And yes, he was the dreamy, poetic, musical, All-American American kind of figure. But his actions were so differrent to his characterization ! One poster argues that his marriage with Elia was political. So ? This does not mean that he can cheat on her !

And if he can plunge the Realm into war to fulfill a prophecy, then I stand by my assertion that he would have pushed 'The Prince That Was Promised' into the line of succesion.

actually his actions are justifying exactly the dreamy, poetic, musical characterization. He loved Lyanna and wanted to live with her ever after no matter what the consequences might be. If that's not dreamy, what is???

but pretty much most of the analysis done in this thread is based on the assumption that we actually know what happened. We don't.

did rhaegar love lyanna?

did he rape her?

was he trying to fulfil the PtWP prophecy?

who can be sure of the answers to that questions???

for all I know maybe Aerys forced Rhaegar to kidnap Lyanna in order to fulfil the prophecy!!!

oh, and one last thing. Rhaegar may have given the opportunity to Rob and co to start the war. but that was not the real reason. I believe this is not really debatable. So do you really wanna tag him as the root of all evil?

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Nice thread.

There is very little textual evidence in the novels for how Rhaegar felt for Lyanna.

There is even less for how Lyanna felt towards Rhaegar.

There is as little as that for if there was eloping or kidnapping ... a romantic tragic love affair or rape ... as it stands now all is food for speculation, not evidence based.

And the little there is in the novels is more often than not open to multiple interpretations.

I think we all as readers have a personal image of what we think can have happened; a pink-colored romantic affair or a brutal rape based on a wish to breed a bloodline - or something else.

Until GRRM does what he recently promised in an interview, provide more information about what happened between Ned, Rhaegar and Lyanna in the upcoming books ... we simply don't know what happened.

I strongly suspect the reason why the TV-show doesn't cover the passages in the novels that hint at what happened between Rhaegar, Lyanna and Ned is that the producers don't have enough to go with. Or that they do know but don't want to spoil the upcoming novels.

All this shouldn't stop us from speculating happily, of course :D

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actually his actions are justifying exactly the dreamy, poetic, musical characterization. He loved Lyanna and wanted to live with her ever after no matter what the consequences might be. If that's not dreamy, what is???

but pretty much most of the analysis done in this thread is based on the assumption that we actually know what happened. We don't.

did rhaegar love lyanna?

did he rape her?

was he trying to fulfil the PtWP prophecy?

who can be sure of the answers to that questions???

for all I know maybe Aerys forced Rhaegar to kidnap Lyanna in order to fulfil the prophecy!!!

oh, and one last thing. Rhaegar may have given the opportunity to Rob and co to start the war. but that was not the real reason. I believe this is not really debatable. So do you really wanna tag him as the root of all evil?

No really, I do tag him as the root of all evil. His actions were, in my opinion, morally wrong and led to the much later confrontation between Brandon and Aerys.

And his characterization was first and foremost that of an honourable man but slightly .... I don't know, ...lost ? So his actions do come as a surprise.

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Nice thread.

There is very little textual evidence in the novels for how Rhaegar felt for Lyanna.

There is even less for how Lyanna felt towards Rhaegar.

There is as little as that for if there was eloping or kidnapping ... a romantic tragic love affair or rape ... as it stands now all is food for speculation, not evidence based.

And the little there is in the novels is more often than not open to multiple interpretations.

I think we all as readers have a personal image of what we think can have happened; a pink-colored romantic affair or a brutal rape based on a wish to breed a bloodline - or something else.

Until GRRM does what he recently promised in an interview, provide more information about what happened between Ned, Rhaegar and Lyanna in the upcoming books ... we simply don't know what happened.

I strongly suspect the reason why the TV-show doesn't cover the passages in the novels that hint at what happened between Rhaegar, Lyanna and Ned is that the producers don't have enough to go with. Or that they do know but don't want to spoil the upcoming novels.

All this shouldn't stop us from speculating happily, of course :D

Could you post a link to that interview?

The thought how long we have to wait yet drives me crazy.

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Could you post a link to that interview?

The thought how long we have to wait yet drives me crazy.

I'll try to find it. i am hopeless in finding things in SSM, but will try.

It was a pretty recent interview. I'm off to :read:

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That is not true. Aegon V, Bloodraven, Baelor Breakspear and many other Targaryen's were not batshit crazy.

Yeah, I haven't read the Dunk & Egg stories yet, but Bloodraven creeps me out in his Wierwood chair...

Still, a minority. Especially of the modern day Targs.

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http://www.scotcampus.com/2011/12/george-r-r-martin/

<Looking at the books there still seem to be a few characters such as Howland Reed who we’ve heard about but not yet met. Do you think readers are likely to see these characters and will you be revisiting say Ned Stark’s past?

(Spoiler)

“Well there’ll be a few characters you’ve not seen who’ll show up in these final volumes yes, and certainly Ned despite being gone has a very large presence in this series. He still casts a long shadow as indeed do other dead people, some of whom have never appeared in the books like Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. The shadows of their past very much impinge on the present and the future in Westeros.”>

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Where are you getting that from? We're talking a year, tops. Jon was born at about the time of the Sack and was conceived a few months into the war, which lasted "about a year," i.e. probably 10-12 months.

I thought the Rebellion lasted 2 years?

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