Why should the Vale help Sansa?

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

Yeah, I really want Sansa to be the one to avenge Ned by taking down Littlefinger. But I'm a little worried - she seems to be growing more fond of LF rather than beginning to suspect things? How long is it going to take her?

There is the theme in the books of people losing their identity. Theon becoming Reek and then Theon again. Arya becoming other identities, nobody, and Arya again. And Sansa with Alayne. That identity is an illusion and the real Sansa Stark IMO would wake from that illusion, I don't know what exactly it would take for that to happen, maybe some scheming from LF which she would be against (LF to kill Sweetrobin perharps putting her at thought about LF actions in general) or her learning something but I can see it now. We will get some Alayne chapters and then a Sansa Stark chapter.

[the Scorpion Knight]

There is the theme in the books of people losing their identity. Theon becoming Reek and then Theon again. Arya becoming other identities, nobody, and Arya again. And Sansa with Alayne. That identity is an illusion and the real Sansa Stark IMO would wake from that illusion, I don't know what exactly it would take for that to happen, maybe some scheming from LF which she would be against (LF to kill Sweetrobin perharps putting her at thought about LF actions in general) or her learning something but I can see it now. We will get some Alayne chapters and then a Sansa Stark chapter.

maybe yohn roye having a private talk to her

[Gingerly Grumkin]

There is the theme in the books of people losing their identity. Theon becoming Reek and then Theon again. Arya becoming other identities, nobody, and Arya again. And Sansa with Alayne. That identity is an illusion and the real Sansa Stark IMO would wake from that illusion, I don't know what exactly it would take for that to happen, maybe some scheming from LF which she would be against (LF to kill Sweetrobin perharps putting her at thought about LF actions in general) or her learning something but I can see it now. We will get some Alayne chapters and then a Sansa Stark chapter.

Lets just hope Little Finger wont turn into father Petyr Baelish

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

As for other reasons of the Vale to support Sansa. Sansa if she goes against LF for the sake of Robert Arryn, other Vale powers including Yohn Royce could support her against LF. If she reveals the plans for LF to poison the kid. There are already some reasons been given by other posters about how the Vale might want to support Sansa but if Sansa also becomes a heroine for the Vale and saves the heir, Robert Arryn from danger that would also be likely to make people be in support of her.

Of course this is a hypothetical, who knows how things will turn out.

[ElizaMartell]

maybe yohn roye having a private talk to her

About what? Is Randa going to spill that she has some idea about who Sansa really is?

[Tyler Snow]

I'm not sure the Vale will "rise" for Sansa in the traditional sense of going out and making war. In all probability it is going to more along the lines of defending her and the new Lord of the Vale, Harry Hardyng from outside enemies. Any Stark will be perceived as an enemy to the Boltons/Freys and Cersei, in all of her wisdom, will probably be enraged at Littlefinger/Sansa's power move and seek to unseat them both. They may strike south in short bursts but it would be no grand campaign of conquest.

I think what we will see is a battle being taken to the Vale driven by ambition and fear (Freys/Boltons) and anger and jealousy (Lannisters) or, perhaps in both cases, hunger. Sansa's revelation is the perfect pretense for those regions that are war ravaged to attempt to gain the Vale, its untouched lands, and its stores of food. Desperation will do funny things to people.

If that is the case, I do see the Vale rising to the defense of their new Lady and their homes and even further weakening the Lannister confederation, giving Aegon and the GC a prime time to strike. I don't see the Tyrells riding to the Vale for war while the ironborn threaten Oldtown/Highgarden and Margery awaiting trial.

I also don't see Sansa betraying Littlefinger. Not until she's married to Harry anyway. If she exposes him prior to that, she is as dead as he would be.

[Wouter]

As for other reasons of the Vale to support Sansa. Sansa if she goes against LF for the sake of Robert Arryn, other Vale powers including Yohn Royce could support her against LF. If she reveals the plans for LF to poison the kid. There are already some reasons been given by other posters about how the Vale might want to support Sansa but if Sansa also becomes a heroine for the Vale and saves the heir, Robert Arryn from danger that would also be likely to make people be in support of her.

This is a good point - if Sansa is seen to save Sweetrobin from LF, she will definitely score points with a number of Vale lords, Yohn Royce foremost among them.

The term for this that I have used before is "wolfing-up." :) I've gradually despised Sansa less and less, but she has to do SOMETHING eventually. Something that makes her almost as cool as her siblings.

Though it was almost entirely a passive thing, Sansa is actually directly responsible for the breakup of the Lannister-Tyrell alliance - the Tyrells killed Joffrey because of they way he treated Sansa (which the Tyrells managed to get Sansa to confirm). And everything else flowed from there. It's fitting that the vision of the 2 castles becoming one, and then collapsing, was given to her even if Brella understood it much more than she did.

[Gingerly Grumkin]

Yeah, I really want Sansa to be the one to avenge Ned by taking down Littlefinger. But I'm a little worried - she seems to be growing more fond of LF rather than beginning to suspect things? How long is it going to take her?

well the way i see LF's downfall is in 3 ways

Not that fun- The Others kill 90% of Westeros

A lil more fun- Dany/Aegon kills 80% of Westeros

Fucking awsome- Sansa finds out about Jeyne Poole and Arya or Ned's betrayal and works on LF's death, while still pretending to be ignorant and his daughter

[The Mother of The Others]

Why would she want to get rid of LF? She's smarter than us on that one. Having LF in your corner is like having Don King as your promoter, or that hilarious fake TV lawyer lady who just does a bunch of press conferences until she gets you a big cash settlement. LF is the best backer you can possibly have if you're Sansa and you want to get back at your enemies. Why the frick would she get off of the gravy train before it rolls to a stop at Winterfell? If she fires LF, she's not gonna get to the promised land without his help. That'd just be a bad business move.

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

Why would she want to get rid of LF? She's smarter than us on that one. Having LF in your corner is like having Don King as your promoter, or that hilarious fake TV lawyer lady who just does a bunch of press conferences until she gets you a big cash settlement. LF is the best backer you can possibly have if you're Sansa and you want to get back at your enemies. Why the frick would she get off of the gravy train before it rolls to a stop at Winterfell? If she fires LF, she's not gonna get to the promised land without his help. That'd just be a bad business move.

Well LF is one of the Stark's enemies (also one of the enemies of Westeros) but he can also be useful and even more dangerous when he is openly your enemy. Right now it is a case of keep your friends close and your enemies closer I guess, especially when that particular enemy is dangerous and powerful and through him you have some kind of protection.

The Robert Arryn issue and LF trying to kill him might also motivate her to stab him in the back. But if she plays it smart she won't betray him until it is the right time to betray him.

[Wouter]

I also don't see Sansa betraying Littlefinger. Not until she's married to Harry anyway. If she exposes him prior to that, she is as dead as he would be.

I disagree, Sansa Stark would have friends in the Vale in her own right. Especially should she have a fall out with LF over Sweetrobin and his "medication". Or if she manages to reveal what really happened with Jon Arryn, to the right people. And pretty soon, Sansa may get visions from a three-eyed crow to clue her in on things.

The mother of the others;

As for why Sansa would want to get rid of LF - because he is planning to molest her and because he is responsible for the death of her father, a lot of family retainers and for the gross mistreatment of Jeyne Poole. Not too mention, for the whole entire war as he started it with his lies.

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

Can the Sweetrobin issue be a wake up call for Sansa and force her to put two and two together and see LF responsibility for a lot of terrible things that have happened? I believe it could lead to such thoughts.

[Tyler Snow]

I thought the dangerous thing about LF is that he isn't openly anyone's enemy. He's basically billed himself as an impartial and brilliant administrator who has just become a bit flighty towards the Crown in recent times. He came into power with the Baratheon king and has stayed, nominally anyway, loyal.

I suppose if Sansa can/does expose LF to the Lords of the Vale and somehow triggers his downfall, I could see the news getting to Cersei and her demanding Sansa's return to King's Landing. The Vale refuses and, once again, raises its banners against the Crown.

^That would be badass.

[The Mother of The Others]

he is planning to molest her, responsible for the death of her father, mistreatment of Jeyne Poole, the whole entire war

That's why we would dump him. Sansa hasn't read the books.

[Elaena Targaryen]

Ok so marching out of the Vale seems near impossible in the winter right. It seems like Ned and others traveled inbetween the North and the Vale by ship, a much shorter route and they did this in the summer. Now Mandely has this big, newly built fleet just sitting there, it seems a waste not to use it. I'm not saying this will happen, but it is possible. On one hand I can't see the Vale getting involved in a fight against northmen (Boltons) for Sansa. On the other hand I can't see them letting another house take the birthright from Sansa Stark. So who knows, maybe they will be invoved with the Riverlands.

[Thunderfist]

It´s a damn shame that they have left the Eyrie, I would have loved a Sansa chapter that ended with:

"I´ve only ever had one father. Only Ned!" - "push"

[HyacinthGirl]

There is the theme in the books of people losing their identity. Theon becoming Reek and then Theon again. Arya becoming other identities, nobody, and Arya again. And Sansa with Alayne. That identity is an illusion and the real Sansa Stark IMO would wake from that illusion, I don't know what exactly it would take for that to happen, maybe some scheming from LF which she would be against (LF to kill Sweetrobin perharps putting her at thought about LF actions in general) or her learning something but I can see it now. We will get some Alayne chapters and then a Sansa Stark chapter.

I see what you mean, I think. Sansa is not becoming fond of Petyr, Alayne is, and when Sansa Stark regains her identity, she'll avenge Papa Wolf.

well the way i see LF's downfall is in 3 ways

Not that fun- The Others kill 90% of Westeros

A lil more fun- Dany/Aegon kills 80% of Westeros

Fucking awsome- Sansa finds out about Jeyne Poole and Arya or Ned's betrayal and works on LF's death, while still pretending to be ignorant and his daughter

YES to the last one. She uses everything he has taught her along with some Stark ferocity to bring him down, whilst playing the innocent.

Though it was almost entirely a passive thing, Sansa is actually directly responsible for the breakup of the Lannister-Tyrell alliance - the Tyrells killed Joffrey because of they way he treated Sansa (which the Tyrells managed to get Sansa to confirm). And everything else flowed from there. It's fitting that the vision of the 2 castles becoming one, and then collapsing, was given to her even if Brella understood it much more than she did.

I'd never really thought about it like that, but you're completely right. But still, I want Sansa to ACTIVELY do something Stark-ish and awesome :)

[HyacinthGirl]

It´s a damn shame that they have left the Eyrie, I would have loved a Sansa chapter that ended with:

"I´ve only ever had one father. Only Ned!" - "push"

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: PLEASEEEE CAN THIS HAPPEN!

[ElizaMartell]

What is Sansa going to do in the Riverlands? The Freys may be evil but they have minds such a Black Walder lurking behind them. So even if she does have arms there are many clever people there. So if she goes without Littlefinger she is finished.

[Wouter]

That's why we would dump him. Sansa hasn't read the books.

Sansa is in a unique position to "get" LF, though. He is much more open to her than to anyone else, admits openly how he is manipulating people (to the point Sansa decides to "tell him what he wants to hear" about being his loving daughter - she uses his own medicine on him so the manipulation isn't all one-sided). Sansa has, as Qhorin Halfhand posted, Sweetrobin to care about and LF as a potential threat to him (assuming Sansa realises this fully after her last AFFC chapter). And I think that Sansa will soon get a "log-in" to Treenet , where Bran will be able to tell her things he's seen and knows. Bran will know about Jeyne, sooner or later. Possibly even about LF's role in Ned's death.