A Public Service Announcement: The Targaryens' (Lack of) Immunity to Fire

[Lord Damian]

Targs were able to handle dragons through one of two ways, magic which has been all but lost. Yes, the world of Ice and Fire has magical properties. And a simple bond which can develope between animals raised from infancy by the same person and be somewhat bonded to others that have a similar smell or aura. Genetic offspring will explain that the original three dragons had more riders. they were also bound, we are told by magic. So, Dany, used blood magic to hatch the 3 dragons on a hunch, nothing more. She got lucky. Other Targs tried different things including other forms of sorcery and magic and failed. I would contend that the Starks with their Warg abilities are just as powerful or even more so unless we can show that a Targ and warg a dragon. Bloodraven maybe. What I am leaning at is Dany is not a goddess.

[PrinceHenryris]

Dig Egg and Co. die from fire at Summerhall? THE FIRE might have caused the tragedy, but burning might not have been the cause of Egg's death (e.g. a big piece of masonry might have fallen on his head).

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

I've seen this discussed elsewhere, and someone made a very good point that the _first_ dragon Quentyn approached actually did seem to start responding, before the other came from behind and roasted the chap. It would seem that Quentyn's mistake was not approaching a dragon at all but that there was one too many.

I see it as dragon #1 distracting Quentyn so that dragon #2 could kill him. Sort of like how pack animals kill...the prey is too preoccupied with the predator in it's sights to notice the other(s) moving in for the kill, not that one liked Quentyn.

[Ser Loudmouth]

I see it as dragon #1 distracting Quentyn so that dragon #2 could kill him. Sort of like how pack animals kill...the prey is too preoccupied with the predator in it's sights to notice the other(s) moving in for the kill, not that one liked Quentyn.

I doubt that the dragons would need to resort to such underhanded tactics seeing as any one of them was perfectly capable of killing Quentyn on it's own if it wanted to.

[Winter's Lady]

I see it as dragon #1 distracting Quentyn so that dragon #2 could kill him. Sort of like how pack animals kill...the prey is too preoccupied with the predator in it's sights to notice the other(s) moving in for the kill, not that one liked Quentyn.

I didn't see a pack mentality, but I didn't see any signs of a response that could lead to submission either. I got the feeling that Viserion(#1) was sort of indifferent about Quentyn, he was just some annoying little thing babbling to him, not worth too much notice, just sort of there. Rhaegal(#2) was just more agressive, and when a dragon is agressive, well, you're toast, literally. :D

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I didn't see a pack mentality, but I didn't see any signs of a response that could lead to submission either. I got the feeling that Viserion(#1) was sort of indifferent about Quentyn, he was just some annoying little thing babbling to him, not worth too much notice, just sort of there. Rhaegal(#2) was just more agressive, and when a dragon is agressive, well, you're toast, literally. :D

That's a good point, too. Like I said, we know that Viserion is the tamest of the three, Drogon is the largest and most powerful and Rhaegal is the pissiest. If Quentyn had gotten a friendly reaction out of Rhaegal, I think there might be something there.

And I've already pointed out that Dany's "blood purity" superiority over Quentyn is pretty minimal, given the recent Targ out-marriages that would have diluted the bloodline.

[Winter's Lady]

That's a good point, too. Like I said, we know that Viserion is the tamest of the three, Drogon is the largest and most powerful and Rhaegal is the pissiest. If Quentyn had gotten a friendly reaction out of Rhaegal, I think there might be something there.

And I've already pointed out that Dany's "blood purity" superiority over Quentyn is pretty minimal, given the recent Targ out-marriages that would have diluted the bloodline.

Agreed.

I think the taming of dragons has more to do with the right behavior towards them. When Dany approached Drogon in the pit, she didn't show any fear and was determined to get to him, Quentyn was the opposite imo.

With such strong wild animals it's about dominance and showing authority. That, could actually have led the Targs to believe that their blood affects the dragons, now that I think of it!

They were sort of "used to" handling dragons, therefore calm and not hesitant. That's what's needed to tame them. Over time the Targs just assumed it was in their blood, not their behavior that made the dragons submit.

Sort of a self fulfilling prophecy: "I'm blood of the dragon, the dragon will obey --> calm and dominant behavior of rider--> dragon responds to that behavior --> ooh my blood really makes them submit, I'm so AWESOME!. Voila." :D

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

I doubt that the dragons would need to resort to such underhanded tactics seeing as any one of them was perfectly capable of killing Quentyn on it's own if it wanted to.

It's not about capablities. We do not know much about dragons, however, they seem to be very intelligent animals. Why wouldn't they they want to make a game out of killing him? Predatory animals like to hunt, versus being hand fed.

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

I don't see any reason to believe that any of the previous generation of Starks were wargs, and I doubt Rhaegar did either.

I think that being that their house sigin is a direwolf means that the Starks have always been wargs. It just skipped generations and they've forgotten their past.

[Ygrain]

Agreed.

I think the taming of dragons has more to do with the right behavior towards them. When Dany approached Drogon in the pit, she didn't show any fear and was determined to get to him, Quentyn was the opposite imo.

With such strong wild animals it's about dominance and showing authority. That, could actually have led the Targs to believe that their blood affects the dragons, now that I think of it!

They were sort of "used to" handling dragons, therefore calm and not hesitant. That's what's needed to tame them. Over time the Targs just assumed it was in their blood, not their behavior that made the dragons submit.

Sort of a self fulfilling prophecy: "I'm blood of the dragon, the dragon will obey --> calm and dominant behavior of rider--> dragon responds to that behavior --> ooh my blood really makes them submit, I'm so AWESOME!. Voila." :D

Therefore, the best dragontamer would be a teacher :-) They have lots of practice at being an alpha male, even when they're female :D

[Winter's Lady]

Therefore, the best dragontamer would be a teacher :-) They have lots of practice at being an alpha male, even when they're female :D

Heh, sort of, yes. Teachers sure have to know how to "tame dragons" :D

But my sudden and unexpected idea came from the idea of pack behavior of animals, thanks to Ororo727. The most confident and unafraid one usually is the alpha, not necessarily the physically strongest.

Oh wait...guess that could go for teachers XD

[ForeverBallin]

No one said Targaryens are immune to fire, they're just more resistant.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

No one said Targaryens are immune to fire, they're just more resistant.

Bull. How many people have gone around saying, "Jon can't be a Targ, he was burned!" Or, "Well Dany is immune to fire, so ..."

I don't know what you're reading but I've seen plenty of people make this assertion.

[Ser Pollo Loco]

Is there book proof to them being more resistant?

Aemon left the wall to not get burned, you would think that at his age he would know if he was fire resistant or not. Dany's hands got burned in ADWD, are we supposed to assume that only part of her is fire resistant?

[Carey Snow]

I think Fearsome Fred was just laughing at how Martin was SO sure that the series would only be six books. :P I don't think that comment was meant to have any relation to the Targ fire argument.

Also, I think it's possible that Daenerys has some degree of fire resistance. Not saying it's a sure thing, but there's evidence for it in both the books and the show. Keep in mind that Daenerys having such an ability doesn't mean that all Targs do, it could be something completely unique to her. Also keep in mind that fire resistance isn't the same thing as complete immunity to fire, I'm sure if she was subjected to enough heat she'd burn like anyone else. (If you're familiar with role-playing games and the like, stuff like that comes up pretty often. I remember one guy in an old gaming group who gave his character a quality called Pain Resistance or something like that, thinking it made him completely immune to non-lethal damage when in actuality it just let him reduce that type of damage by 10%.)

I agree with this (except the role playing stuff which I doubt Martin is basing anything around). We have had two instances with Dany where she was burned badly enough to cause her death or serious injuries. One by a funeral pryor and one by her dragon Drogon. Both times the fire was strong enough to burn away her hair and clothing, and she just came away with blisters. Quentyn was burned similarly by Viserion and was burned to a charred crisp.

Something is going on with Dany. It may just be her and not all Targs. It maybe some magic by belief thing she has as the mother of Dragons (who bring magic into the world). If her Dragons die maybe she loses this magic. She seems to be able to handle fire that would badly burn other men (not just a few blisters.)

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Is there book proof to them being more resistant?

Not to my knowledge, no. I believe some of them like things hot (like bathwater), but that's a far cry from being "resistant" to actual open flames.

I agree with this (except the role playing stuff which I doubt Martin is basing anything around). We have had two instances with Dany where she was burned badly enough to cause her death or serious injuries. One by a funeral pryor and one by her dragon Drogon. Both times she was burned bad enough to lose her hair and she just came away with blisters. Quentyn was burned similarly by Viserion and was burned to a charred crisp.

Drogon's breath burned Dany. He did not actually roar fire at her the way Rhaegal did to Quentyn. Not the same situation.

Something is going on with Dany. It may just be her and not all Targs. It maybe some magic by belief thing she has as the mother of Dragons (who bring magic into the world). If her Dragons die maybe she loses this magic. She seems to be able to handle fire that would badly burn other men (not just a few blisters.)

There was no actual fire. It was just his breath.

[Carey Snow]

Not to my knowledge, no. I believe some of them like things hot (like bathwater), but that's a far cry from being "resistant" to actual open flames.

Drogon's breath burned Dany. He did not actually roar fire at her the way Rhaegal did to Quentyn. Not the same situation.

There was no actual fire. It was just his breath.

Here is the exact passage page 699 of my copy:

"With a hisssss, he spat black fire down at her. Dany darted underneath the flames, swinging her whip and shouting, "No, no, no, Get DOWN!" His answering roar was full of fear and fury, full of pain. His wings beat once, twice... and folded. The dragon gave one last hiss and laid flat on his belly."

Dany goes on to think: "He is fire made flesh, and so am I"

on page 916: (Barristan POV)

"No," he said aloud. "Daenerys is not dead. She was riding that dragon. I saw it with me own two eyes." He had said the same a hundred times before . . . but every day that passed made it harder to believe. Her hair was afire. I saw that two. She was burning. . ."

So we know that Drogon hissed real fire at her not just hot air (black fire at that), it may not have been a direct hit as she ducked/darted but it was enough to catch her on fire. She came out of it with a few blisters which healed quickly.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Here is the exact passage page 699 of my copy:

"With a hisssss, he spat black fire down at her. Dany darted underneath the flames, swinging her whip and shouting, "No, no, no, Get DOWN!" His answering roar was full of fear and fury, full of pain. His wings beat once, twice... and folded. The dragon gave one last hiss and laid flat on his belly."

Dany goes on to think: "He is fire made flesh, and so am I"

She ducked UNDERNEATH the flames. They did not actually touch her, apart from her hair.

on page 916: (Barristan POV)

"No," he said aloud. "Daenerys is not dead. She was riding that dragon. I saw it with me own two eyes." He had said the same a hundred times before . . . but every day that passed made it harder to believe. Her hair was afire. I saw that two. She was burning. . ."

So we know that Drogon hissed real fire at her not just hot air (black fire at that), it may not have been a direct hit as she ducked/darted but it was enough to catch her on fire. She came out of it with a few blisters which healed quickly.

I was actually referring to this, on pg. 698:

"Drogon roared full in her face, HIS BREATH HOT ENOUGH TO BLISTER SKIN."

Just his breath blistered her. This did not involve fire. When he did unleash fire, she ducked it.

Hey, I hope she does go on thinking she's fire made flesh. Then she can join the line of idiots in her family who thought the same thing and died stupidly.

[Carey Snow]

She ducked UNDERNEATH the flames. They did not actually touch her, apart from her hair.

I was actually referring to this, on pg. 698:

"Drogon roared full in her face, HIS BREATH HOT ENOUGH TO BLISTER SKIN."

Just his breath blistered her. This did not involve fire. When he did unleash fire, she ducked it.

Hey, I hope she does go on thinking she's fire made flesh. Then she can join the line of idiots in her family who thought the same thing and died stupidly.

Hey, you can keep hoping that Dany goes up in a ball of flames. All I know is that she was close enough to real dragon fire to catch her hair and clothing on fire, and she does not even think about the heat or pain. She is just worried about commanding Drogon, protecting her people, and getting her dragon out of that mess before he gets hurt.

Maybe she tricks herself into not feeling the heat of the fire or maybe she is immune to the heat and pain.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Hey, you can keep hoping that Dany goes up in a ball of flames. All I know is that she was close enough to real dragon fire to catch her hair and clothing on fire, and she does not even think about the heat or pain. She is just worried about commanding Drogon, protecting her people, and getting her dragon out of that mess before he gets hurt.

Maybe she tricks herself into not feeling the heat of the fire.

I think the word you're looking for there is "adrenalin." :P