Little Finger's Death.

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

I rally hope your just sarcastic

Well unless my name is Howland Reed's Wrath, it couldn't be more obvious whether I am sarcastic or not.

[voodooqueen126]

Above all Littlefinger betrayed her father, lied to her mother and caused her aunty to spark the whole damn war that has ruined Sansa's life.

So sure, she could well use Littlefinger to end her Lannister marriage and married to Harold the Heir, which would give her an army after Sweet Robin's death (which she can then employ to sack the twins and Casterly Rock).

but since Littlefinger probably doesn't want to sack the Twins or burn down Casterly Rock, but instead wants more power in Kingslanding, there is no reason for Sansa not to kill Littlefinger as soon as the advantageous marriage to Harold the Heir has been consumated.

[Winter's Knight]

but since Littlefinger probably doesn't want to sack the Twins or burn down Casterly Rock, but instead wants more power in Kingslanding, there is no reason for Sansa not to kill Littlefinger as soon as the advantageous marriage to Harold the Heir has been consumated.

If he wants power in KL, he would have to attack the Lannisters and Freys-they're not going to be pleased that he has been hiding Sansa.

And we must remember that apart from Lysa's own confession, Sansa has no knowledge of Petyr's role in her father's death.

[protar]

I don't think LF is going to fall into the "she's under my control" trap-that would be disappointing.

I hope to see Sansa learn from Petyr and to grow more aggressive. I want to see her using his methods to systematically crush the Lannnisters and take revenge for her family.

That's what I want to see as well, and it jsut so happens that LF is a Lannister ally and was part of her father's death. I can see her finding out about that and I don't see how anyone can think she'll be ok with that.

And really LF does seem to be trusting Sansa more than is wise. He's confided in her a lot and is teaching her the tricks of the trade. It doesn't seem like he's considering the possibility she might betray him.

I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree. You might think that Sansa and LF are going to end up best buds or something, but to me it's obvious that he's going down.

Edit: Also about LF being in trouble for hiding Sansa. Do you really think the Lannisters will be complaining if he brings The North and The Vale fully into the king's peace? Sure they'll know he hid her to get more power, but since when has it been a secret that LF's a power hungry bastard? If he were to stitch the realm back together from it, they're going to forgive him, so long as he makes out he found her, rather than helped her escape KL.

[Grunkins]

Varys vs Littlefinger, cage match, winner gets to put a puppet on the throne.

[The Swaggering Bravo]

being Raped(i'm certain he will do it or at least try) and sexually harrased(slowly already happening) by LF

She was beaten in King's Landing, and this is somehow an equivalent evil because of what might happen?

[Winter's Knight]

That's what I want to see as well, and it jsut so happens that LF is a Lannister ally and was part of her father's death. I can see her finding out about that and I don't see how anyone can think she'll be ok with that.

And really LF does seem to be trusting Sansa more than is wise. He's confided in her a lot and is teaching her the tricks of the trade. It doesn't seem like he's considering the possibility she might betray him.

I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree. You might think that Sansa and LF are going to end up best buds or something, but to me it's obvious that he's going down.

Edit: Also about LF being in trouble for hiding Sansa. Do you really think the Lannisters will be complaining if he brings The North and The Vale fully into the king's peace? Sure they'll know he hid her to get more power, but since when has it been a secret that LF's a power hungry bastard? If he were to stitch the realm back together from it, they're going to forgive him, so long as he makes out he found her, rather than helped her escape KL.

He may have been able to bargain his way in before whilst either Kevan or Tywin were alive, but now that Cersei is in charge, would she accept him back?

[Skeksi]

OK, I think we can safely assume that LF is NOT a Lannister ally, he is giving them the impression that he is one because it suits his purposes. That is why he was raised to High Lord and allowed to go and marry Lysa Arryn. The Lannisters think he is bringing the Vale under their control because they think he is their ally.

As far as Sansa, and the reader, knows, he plotted Joffrey's death, has hidden her from the Lannisters, and intends to reveal her (which will put him directly at odds with the Lannisters, because they want her arrested for Joffrey's murder), marry her to Harry the Heir and gain control over the North, the Vale and the Riverlands. He believes that Cersei is going to destroy herself- in fact, he's planning on it- he even mentions giving Harrenhal to her because of the curse.

What part of any of that is supposed to make Sansa- or the readers- think that he is a Lannister ally who wants control of all of these places so he can bring them into the King's Peace and hand them to the Lannisters? Make her think that he intends to rule the three kingdoms through her? Quite possibly. Start a war which will lead to them gaining more of the Kingdoms? Perhaps? But there is no hint that Petyr is actually still working for the Lannisters, and once it's revealed that he's been hiding Sansa, and is intending to reinstate her in the North (currently held by the Lannister allies), they're not going to believe that either.

[protar]

OK, I think we can safely assume that LF is NOT a Lannister ally, he is giving them the impression that he is one because it suits his purposes. That is why he was raised to High Lord and allowed to go and marry Lysa Arryn. The Lannisters think he is bringing the Vale under their control because they think he is their ally.

As far as Sansa, and the reader, knows, he plotted Joffrey's death, has hidden her from the Lannisters, and intends to reveal her (which will put him directly at odds with the Lannisters, because they want her arrested for Joffrey's murder), marry her to Harry the Heir and gain control over the North, the Vale and the Riverlands. He believes that Cersei is going to destroy herself- in fact, he's planning on it- he even mentions giving Harrenhal to her because of the curse.

What part of any of that is supposed to make Sansa- or the readers- think that he is a Lannister ally who wants control of all of these places so he can bring them into the King's Peace and hand them to the Lannisters? Make her think that he intends to rule the three kingdoms through her? Quite possibly. Start a war which will lead to them gaining more of the Kingdoms? Perhaps? But there is no hint that Petyr is actually still working for the Lannisters, and once it's revealed that he's been hiding Sansa, and is intending to reinstate her in the North (currently held by the Lannister allies), they're not going to believe that either.

I doubt he's working directly for the Lannisters/Tyrells (keep in mind the Tyrells are now in control of KL pretty much.), but they're his best bet if he wants power. All of the titles he's accumulated are granted by Tommen, they don't mean anything to the otherk kings so if LF wants to keep them he needs to side with the Lannisters. The reason he would want to bring them all back into the Kings peace is to stop the war so he can finally reap his rewards. He's spent the series instigating chaos but now he's got what he wants out of the chaos, so he can settle things down again.

If he hands over the Vale, North, and Riverlands to the Lannisters he finishes the war, and indirectly rules over about 2/3 of the realm. And he can continue to build his power from there, by marrying into powerful houses. Sure he could declare for one of the other kings and hand them those three areas, but then he'd have to help get the rest of the realm from the lannisters. He would risk losing everything. Tommen is the king with the strongest claim at the moment when it comes to power. Stannis has a few northern lords, Aegon has sellswords and possibly Dorne in the future, and Euron is still little more than a pirate. Tommen is his best bet if he wants power. So yes he's handing the realm into Lannister hands, but for his own gain, not theirs.

And also I'm pretty certain they'll think he's one their side if he gives them all that land.

[the Scorpion Knight]

She was beaten in King's Landing, and this is somehow an equivalent evil because of what might happen?

I think thats what LF will try to once he lost his patience with waiting (and he's getting bolder and bolder)

[Skeksi]

Why would LF declare for any of the current kings? From what he has said to Sansa, he intends for the Vale to rise to win her back the North. If he can unite the Vale, Riverlands and North under Sansa as a puppet Queen, or even himself, why would he hand them over to the Lannister/ Tyrell alliance which is falling to spectacular pieces, or indeed any of the other kings?

As far as the Lannisters are concerned, the Riverlands have been subdued, the Vale is neutral, and under the control of their "ally", and the North is controlled by their allies, the Boltons, cemented with an alliance to "Arya Stark". If LF announces that he's been hiding Sansa Stark all this time, hiding her from the Lannisters who think she murdered their king, takes back the North from the Lannister allies in the name of Ned Stark's ACTUAL daughter, and unites it with the Vale and the Riverlands, creating a massive base of power that puts him in a great political position, in what way is this going to look good for him?

Once again, as far as the Lannisters are concerned, the North and Riverlands are under their control (the North through the Boltons, and the Riverlands are still occupied, unless I miss my guess?), and Petyr is keeping the Vale underneath the King's Peace. Once he reveals Sansa and claims the North in her name, he is taking power AWAY from the Lannisters.

I can POSSIBLY see him working with the Tyrells, since we know he already has. But only if they're in a favourable position. The Lannister/ Tyrell alliance is uneasy. Aegon, Dorne and Daenerys will all be going for them. Why not carve himself out his own power base and leave the Lannisters to rot?

[protar]

Why would LF declare for any of the current kings? From what he has said to Sansa, he intends for the Vale to rise to win her back the North. If he can unite the Vale, Riverlands and North under Sansa as a puppet Queen, or even himself, why would he hand them over to the Lannister/ Tyrell alliance which is falling to spectacular pieces, or indeed any of the other kings?

As far as the Lannisters are concerned, the Riverlands have been subdued, the Vale is neutral, and under the control of their "ally", and the North is controlled by their allies, the Boltons, cemented with an alliance to "Arya Stark". If LF announces that he's been hiding Sansa Stark all this time, hiding her from the Lannisters who think she murdered their king, takes back the North from the Lannister allies in the name of Ned Stark's ACTUAL daughter, and unites it with the Vale and the Riverlands, creating a massive base of power that puts him in a great political position, in what way is this going to look good for him?

Once again, as far as the Lannisters are concerned, the North and Riverlands are under their control (the North through the Boltons, and the Riverlands are still occupied, unless I miss my guess?), and Petyr is keeping the Vale underneath the King's Peace. Once he reveals Sansa and claims the North in her name, he is taking power AWAY from the Lannisters.

I can POSSIBLY see him working with the Tyrells, since we know he already has. But only if they're in a favourable position. The Lannister/ Tyrell alliance is uneasy. Aegon, Dorne and Daenerys will all be going for them. Why not carve himself out his own power base and leave the Lannisters to rot?

Well the Tyrells are pretty much in control of KL, and they'd probably excuse Sansa, and LF for hiding her if it was giving them half the realm. So I certainly think that LF will be handing those regions to the iron throne. The Lannister power base may be weakened, but the Tyrells still have a firm grip on most of Westeros (I guess I should have been saying Tyrell instead of Lannister all this time.). I don't think LF would be able to pull off carving out his own kingdom. Uniting the North, Vale and Riverlands under Sansa and declaring for Tommen or Stannis or whoever is one thing. Declaring himself king his quite another, and I doubt many would follow him. If however he were to hand those regions over to the Tyrells and the Lannisters he could control them easily behind the scenes, and with them being attached to the rest of the realm rather than at war, he could spread his influence even further. He'd be getting much the same influence but with minimalised risks. The last thing LF wants right now is more fighting imo. He's got rewards from the war, but if he wants to take advantage of them he needs things to settle down.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

As great of a bad guy he is. I would mind him dying. I think somehow it'll slip that he betrayed Ned and then sansa will kill him.

[Curtin]

I don't understand all this Littlefinger hate - no one in the story has come so far with so little. How can you not respect his ambition, determination and cunning?

I think there is a lot of a romantic out there who have a vision of what should happen to Sansa and because of it are a little bit hyper sensitive of what happens to her. I find it hilarious that people are so appalled by this "sexual assault" - it's a laughable considering what else Sansa has been through and what horrific acts other characters have committed.

[protar]

I don't understand all this Littlefinger hate - no one in the story has come so far with so little. How can you not respect his ambition, determination and cunning?

I think there is a lot of a romantic out there who have a vision of what should happen to Sansa and because of it are a little bit hyper sensitive of what happens to her. I find it hilarious that people are so appalled by this "sexual assault" - it's a laughable considering what else Sansa has been through and what horrific acts other characters have committed.

So it's acceptable to sexually harrass someone if they've been through worse before?

[Winter's Knight]

So it's acceptable to sexually harrass someone if they've been through worse before?

He was wrong to kiss Sansa-no one is defending that.

She is still much safer with him than she ever was at KL.

[Curtin]

So it's acceptable to sexually harrass someone if they've been through worse before?

I never said that - I'm just saying her situation is a lot better with Littlefinger than it has been for a long while.

And you use the term sexual harassment like it's murder - every male on this forum is more than likely guilty of it at some stage after a few drinks.

[Fearsome Fred]

I don't understand all this Littlefinger hate - no one in the story has come so far with so little. How can you not respect his ambition, determination and cunning?

Not all people worship evil.

[the Scorpion Knight]

He was wrong to kiss Sansa-no one is defending that.

She is still much safer with him than she ever was at KL.

from the vipers pit to the lion's den

[protar]

He was wrong to kiss Sansa-no one is defending that.

She is still much safer with him than she ever was at KL.

True, but only because she's useful to LF's plans and he seems infatuated with her. If Sansa somehow stopped being useful to him, all that protection goes out the window and the rape starts imo.