Dany's Reaction to Quentyn & would Dany have liked Quentyn if he was hot?

[Mr. E]

Yes, the army is half a world away, but half a world away is where she's supposed to be going. I find it astonishing that she'd be ticked about the Dornish, who are six inches away from a world of trouble themselves, not knowing that her current plan wasn't to come to Westeros and take over but to stay in Meeren indefinitely, and that she'd backed herself into a corner because her dragons were basically useless. It's not like you could read up on it on Google News.

Hmm, I don't know. Is she "supposed" to be going to Westeros, or is that just where everyone is expecting her to be going? I obviously think that was her original plan, but I think she has gotten in too deep with Slaver's Bay, and has no real way of getting out--which is why she basically ends up running.

I honestly think that's the root of everything, including her treatment of Quentyn. She's young, overwhelmed, in too deep--and she gets snappish, makes bad decisions, puts of crucial conflicts by hide in the arms of a sellsword...its a very immature, 15-year old thing to do, but it is understandable, IMO.

[Sevumar]

Hmm, I don't know. Is she "supposed" to be going to Westeros, or is that just where everyone is expecting her to be going? I obviously think that was her original plan, but I think she has gotten in too deep with Slaver's Bay, and has no real way of getting out--which is why she basically ends up running.

I think it's reasonable to expect Dany to head to Westeros at some point. From the very first book, she's had dreams of fighting against an army of ice from dragonback on the Trident. That seems like fairly strong foreshadowing of some role in the war against the Others. Her main motive has always been to get back to Westeros and try to take the Iron Throne from the Baratheon royal family, especially after the death of her brother. It would be deeply disappointing if she didn't make it to Westeros in time to do something meaningful before the end of the story. Otherwise, there would be little point in having devoted so many pages to her story and her character arc, being as detached from the main story as it would be in that case.

I honestly think that's the root of everything, including her treatment of Quentyn. She's young, overwhelmed, in too deep--and she gets snappish, makes bad decisions, puts of crucial conflicts by hide in the arms of a sellsword...its a very immature, 15-year old thing to do, but it is understandable, IMO.

This whole Quentyn situation was bound to turn out poorly. At the heart of it, we have two teenagers, one possessing a lot of power with few checks and little real experience, and another who has been relatively sheltered and who believes he's living out a grand adventure from the stories. This match was not going to work, but I would have liked to have seen some realization on the parts of both Dany and Quentyn that not being available for an immediate marriage doesn't mean you can't negotiate with the long-term future in mind.

Both of them have personality traits that make negotiation difficult, but if they want to be successful leaders, it's something they'll have to learn. Of course, Quentyn won't have that chance. Dany's lack of foresight and her temper have already cost her some potential allies and gains in Meereen, and her poor handling of the Quentyn situation will probably contribute to pushing Dorne away (possibly into the arms of Aegon).

Dany's long been a very inconsistent character, often moving between extremes of competence and cluelessness. When she agrees to marry Hizdahr, we get the sense that she understands political marriage isn't about mutual attraction, but with Quentyn, all of that suddenly flies out the window. It doesn't make a lot of sense. She shows an awareness of Targaryen polygamy in ACoK, but seems to conveniently forget that this might be an option for her when confronted with Quentyn's arrival.

[Lady Blackfyre]

She shows an awareness of Targaryen polygamy in ACoK, but seems to conveniently forget that this might be an option for her when confronted with Quentyn's arrival.

In fact, she did consider it. Or at least she mentioned it to Quentyn:

“The dragon has three heads,” Dany said when they were on the final flight. “My marriage need not be the end of all your hopes. I know why you are here.”

[littlespider]

Let's say Quentyn had been a smoking hottie, Dany had abandoned all political and military exigencies and agreed to marry him, spurned Hizdahr, and declared "fuck this place. I'm out."

How is Quentyn even going to get her out of Meereen at that point? With the dragons? How are they going to get back to Dorne? They're kind of besieged by the Yunkai.

She had no choice. Doesn't matter what he looked like. Quentyn would have been able to make his case if he'd brought 50,000 spears.

[teemo]

I'm not a Dany hater by any means, and I understand what some people are saying - that she is just a young girl and doesn't know any better, etc., but isn't her ultimate goal to conquer Westeros? Even with all of the distractions in Meereen, you would think that one of the number one things she would be looking out for were allies from Westeros. Regardless of how nerdy Quentyn was and the fact that he was only with two people, Dany also seemed to forget that Quentyn is pretty closely related to her. Isn't he technically a nephew-in-law? Dany's own brother was married to a Martell, who was slaughtered and raped along with her children, who were half Targaryen. The Martells and Targaryens were both royally screwed by the Lannisters and the "Usurper," so it just seems like a message from Dorne should have been looked at a little more seriously.

Even though Dany meant nothing cruel with her laugh, that is meaningless. Even Quentyn's friends told Barristan that Dany laughed at Quentyn, and that's what they are going to say when (or if) they return to Dorne. It's not going to be like, "Hey, Doran and Sand Snakes, Dany tried her best....but she was engaged to this dude Hizdahr and couldn't do anything. She was so hospitable though! And then silly Quentyn went and burned himself alive." No, it's going to be more like, "The bitch laughed in Quentyn's face and then she disappeared and her dragons burned him alive." That might be an exaggeration, or it could even be way worse than that....they are pissed and who knows what they will say. That was a real chance for her to make some kind of alliance with Dorne, but now if she is going to try to conquer Westeros, she'll most likely have to do without them. The Sand Snakes, who have pretty much been pointless caricatures until now, might really take slight at this. Poor choice. It makes me think that she doesn't even really want Westeros anymore. Even though she is young, I thought she would have had her eye more on the big picture. I was really rooting for Quentyn, and that meeting between them was just....pitiful. Ugh! Not to mention, unless Quentyn was really just filler and nothing else, I do think there will be repercussions for how she acted.

[LadyoftheNorth72]

If Quentyn's two friends (or the story of what happened to him ever arrive back to Doran, possibly along with a shoebox containing his remains, I think Dany will have a new enemy for life (and a bad one). This may be the thing that finally pushes Doran over the edge and into serious action. I have had the impression that all these years, he has been biding his time, waiting for this marriage that would cement all his plans. Now that they have been burnt out of existence, I think he will start turning his Sand snakes (and whatever else he has) loose on his enemies, and will probably ally with Aegon to boot.

The only thing is, when/how will he find out? Quentyn's two friends are not headed home, they are off on the goose chase that Selmy has thought up for them.

[PatrickStormborn]

Quentyn's death will almost definitely ruin any potential alliance with Dorne, but I think they would have allied with Aegon anyway.

Who cares, though? Dorne can rally about 15-20k spears, if I remember correctly. It would be great if she had their support, but at the end of the day they can't offer her 50k like she was promised. It also looks like she'll be conquering Pentos and taking over a khalasar in the next book, so I don't think she'll miss those elusive spears.

The only thing Daenerys did wrong was laughing at Quentyn the "frog prince". But that wouldn't have mattered if Quentyn hadn't got himself burned trying to steal her dragons.

[LifeRuiner]

if he'd been more like Daario "the Situation" Naharis (he does seem like he could be a Jersey Shore cast member, doesn't he?).

Excellent, this is how I'm going to call Daario from now on!

Sadly, Quentyn didn't turn out to be anything more than a plot device. I started out liking him but his story arc went nowhere fast.

[Sevumar]

In fact, she did consider it. Or at least she mentioned it to Quentyn:

I didn't interpret that as a reference to Targaryen polygamy because she never explicitly comes out and says that. While she did equate dragon riders with husbands/heads of the dragon earlier in the series, it seems she's moving away from that. From my point of view, it looks like that she's telling him that he could either still be a dragon rider, even though she's not free to marry him, or that once the three-headed dragon is assembled and on its way to Westeros, they could still make common cause.

One of Dany's problems here is a lack of clarity. She's not very clear in a lot of her communication in most aspects of the Quentyn affair. It seems like, with just a few minutes of thought, she could have come up with a more effective way of communicating her current situation and future possibilities without muddling things as much as she did.

Some of this comes from the surprise nature of the visit. She had no way of knowing to expect the arrival of Dornish envoys, but once they were there, she should have gone out of her way to make sure that she was stately, courteous, and that she made time to treat with Quentyn and his companions privately (instead of as a rushed aside at a dinner party).

[The King in the South]

Well I mean she already turned down Daario, and he's apparentely the epitome of "hot" for her....

I don't see her doing it, she's better than that.

[Fire_Kiss]

I place most of the fault at Prince Caution's feet. If Doran Martell had gotten word to Viserys that he had a firey hot Princess Arienne waiting for him back in Dorne, he most likely would:

A) not sold Dany to the Dothraki and gone to Dorne

Or

B ) would have still married off Dany but stayed in Pentos untill her approval by the Dosh Kahleen

Either way, the moment Viserys got his crown of gold from Drogo, the marriage pact was out of the picture, and Doran should have coached Quentin as to how to propose marriage (or at the very least an alliance) with Dany.

Instead, Quentin goes to Dany, fully expecting her to fall (hot and ready) into his arms. Presumptuousness like that can get you killed.

As it stands, I had no respect for Q. The chapter ls leading up to his death cemented that dislike for him. He fervently believed that he deserved a dragon to take back to Dorne, furthermore he felt Dany had TOLD HIM TO.

If Doran had sent Quentin away from Dorne at such a young age, why on earth wasn't he groomed better?!?

Sure, Dany could have handled things with more tact. As we've said earlier, she's still a young teenager. I don't think she would have given a groat what he looked like had Quentin approached her differently.

[Bran Vras]

I place most of the fault at Prince Caution's feet. If Doran Martell had gotten word to Viserys that he had a firey hot Princess Arienne waiting for him back in Dorne, he most likely would:

A) not sold Dany to the Dothraki and gone to Dorne

Or

B ) would have still married off Dany but stayed in Pentos untill her approval by the Dosh Kahleen

Either way, the moment Viserys got his crown of gold from Drogo, the marriage pact was out of the picture, and Doran should have coached Quentin as to how to propose marriage (or at the very least an alliance) with Dany.

Instead, Quentin goes to Dany, fully expecting her to fall (hot and ready) into his arms. Presumptuousness like that can get you killed.

As it stands, I had no respect for Q. The chapter ls leading up to his death cemented that dislike for him. He fervently believed that he deserved a dragon to take back to Dorne, furthermore he felt Dany had TOLD HIM TO.

If Doran had sent Quentin away from Dorne at such a young age, why on earth wasn't he groomed better?!?

Sure, Dany could have handled things with more tact. As we've said earlier, she's still a young teenager. I don't think she would have given a groat what he looked like had Quentin approached her differently.

It's a good observation that Doran Martell did nothing while Viserys and Dany were reduced to begging. It seems like you need to come to that thread.

[Mumatil]

Sadly I think she would reconsider.

[Trinket2]

I do think she would have liked Quentyn more if he had been a bit more exciting. Kind of like Selmy thinks about mud and fire. But even if he had been, I don't think she would have gone back on her word to marry Hizdar. I don't think her behaviour was out of character though- she is still a teenage girl, which is also very clear when it comes to Daario.

Dany needs to make up her mind, though. She won't be able to have both Slaver's bay and Westeros. If she wanted Westeros, Quentyn would have been the best political choice, looks or no looks. Besides, for all we know he is merely uncomely, not hideous/deformed like Tyrion, so I don't think him merely being unattractive is a good enough excuse to pass up a political alliance. She chose to stay in Mereen to deal with the political situation there, suggesting that maybe she isn't that eager to get to Westeros in the first place. Which is perfectly reasonable considering that Westeros has never been there and she has no emotional ties to it herself.

The dragon flying her away from Mereen seems very much like a plot push to get her safely out of a situation which she would not be able to solve herself and get her moving.

[LadyoftheNorth72]

I absolutely agree that much of the blame for how things went can be laid upon Doran himself. He sat on every plan for far too long and did not make the necessary adjustments to his plans when huge sections of them were completely removed from the picture. And his plans were unstable at best to begin with.

Unfortunately I don't think Doran will see it that way. What he will see is that he sent his beloved and treasured son with a perfectly legitimate and sensible proposal of marriage and alliance, and that not only did Dany refuse both, she did so in a way that is likely to be seen as more or less spitting on the offer (whether that was her intention or not). It will be interesting to see, once Doran finds out what has happened, what he ultimately turns out to be: the patient avenger who has well laid plans to bring his enemies down for good, or the used up and tired old man who simply does not have it in him to play the Game anymore. Given that he currently has his Sand Snakes deployed into various positions where they can cause a great deal of havoc, I am hoping it turns out to he the former, and that Quentyn's failure and death will propel him into action that makes Varys and LF look like ignorant schoolboys. Otherwise I am going to be very aggravated that we wasted so much time in Dorne, finding out all this information about someone who turns out to be a complete nonentity in every imaginable way.

Or, the Sand Snakes will simply go rogue, take over their individual situations, and get some hits in for Dorne of their own accord. Now that he has sent them out into key positions, nothing Doran could say or do is going to prevent those women from going after their pounds (or tons) of flesh.

[Faint]

There is a fascinating dynamic at play here. Presumably, the Martells will not ally with Aegon until Quentyn’s expedition is settled and they are not likely to hear of its result for some time yet.

However, if the Martells are made to understand that ‘Aegon’ is himself an ally of Daenerys that might expedite matters. But, in doing so, wouldn’t ‘Aegon’ also have to reveal that he plans on marrying Daenerys? And will the Martells not insist that Arianne is married to ‘Aegon’ as a price for their alliance?

It would almost seem that the only manner in which the Martells would make common cause with ‘Aegon’ is if he would be willing to marry Arianne and give up his stated goal of marrying Daenerys and aligning with her. In the alternative, why would the Martells favor an alliance with ‘Aegon’ given his close connections to Daenerys Targaryen, who, depending on if they have heard about Quentyn’s death or not, is either the haughty queen that humiliated their prince and got their prince killed or the haughty queen that has no intention of marrying their prince.

The last alternative is that Arianne actually buys that ‘Aegon’ is Aegon, and the Martells align with him based on the belief that he is the son of Elia Martell, absent any kind of marriage for either Arianne or Quentyn (not having heard of the latter’s demise).

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

I place most of the fault at Prince Caution's feet. If Doran Martell had gotten word to Viserys that he had a firey hot Princess Arienne waiting for him back in Dorne, he most likely would:

A) not sold Dany to the Dothraki and gone to Dorne

Or

B ) would have still married off Dany but stayed in Pentos untill her approval by the Dosh Kahleen

Either way, the moment Viserys got his crown of gold from Drogo, the marriage pact was out of the picture, and Doran should have coached Quentin as to how to propose marriage (or at the very least an alliance) with Dany.

Instead, Quentin goes to Dany, fully expecting her to fall (hot and ready) into his arms. Presumptuousness like that can get you killed.

As it stands, I had no respect for Q. The chapter ls leading up to his death cemented that dislike for him. He fervently believed that he deserved a dragon to take back to Dorne, furthermore he felt Dany had TOLD HIM TO.

If Doran had sent Quentin away from Dorne at such a young age, why on earth wasn't he groomed better?!?

Sure, Dany could have handled things with more tact. As we've said earlier, she's still a young teenager. I don't think she would have given a groat what he looked like had Quentin approached her differently.

I agree. She doesn't like the way that Hizdahr zo Loraq looks either, but she married him in order to restore peace.

[jarl the climber]

IMO a lot of the blame has to be put on Quentyn himself, he seemed to think that being the Prince of Dorne and a peice of parchment would be enough to get what he wanted, I can't remember the exact conversation off the top of my head but he says hes not scared of sellswords or Hizadar and Danys like this guy is a fool. Certianly he could have handled the situation with the Windblown better.

I agree with those who say that the perception of how Quentyn was treated will probaly have some impact going forward but that he was basically a boy playing a mans game. I think Dany treated him respectfuly enough in private but his public reception went very poorly and that part of this was his own fault, he didn't have to marry Dany or ride a dragon to forge an alliance with her. I think if he had been more attractive perhaps it might have actually caused problems, what would Hizdar and Daario do if they thought she liked him? Sometimes being attractive is a disadvantage, it tends to draw attention.

[Fearsome Fred]

IMO a lot of the blame has to be put on Quentyn himself, he seemed to think that being the Prince of Dorne and a peice of parchment would be enough to get what he wanted, [...]

Quentyn did not "seem to think" anything. He attempted to fulfill the mission that was assigned to him. When that failed, he bravely switched to Plan B.

Alot of nonsense is being talked in this thread. Dany was not rude to Quentyn, and Quentyn himself did not believe that Dany was rude to him. That certain third-parties (like Gerris) may have gotten this mis-impression is rather beside the point.

Dany's refusal of Quent's marriage proposal was not unreasonable. He showed up on her doorstep on the eve of her marriage, while her city was surrounded by armies, bringing nothing with him but a pair of knights.

Quent's "hotness" or lack thereof has nothing to do with it. Dany may not find him as hot as Daario, but she clearly likes him better than King H, and regretted that circumstances forced her to turn him down.

[jarl the climber]

Quentyn did not "seem to think" anything. He attempted to fulfill the mission that was assigned to him. When that failed, he bravely switched to Plan B.

Alot of nonsense is being talked in this thread. Dany was not rude to Quentyn, and Quentyn himself did not believe that Dany was rude to him. That certain third-parties (like Gerris) may have gotten this mis-impression is rather beside the point.

Dany's refusal of Quent's marriage proposal was not unreasonable. He showed up on her doorstep on the eve of her marriage, while her city was surrounded by armies, bringing nothing with him but a pair of knights.

Quent's "hotness" or lack thereof has nothing to do with it. Dany may not find him as hot as Daario, but she clearly likes him better than King H, and regretted that circumstances forced her to turn him down.

Actually the perception that Drinkwater and Yronwood has might be very important, if they live and bring his body back to Dorne, it will be there words that Prince Doran or Arriane hear about Quentyns death and treatment by Dany.

You are quite right Quentyn didn't seem to think at all, seeing that she was about to be married he could've backed off on the marriage thing and merely presented the treaty as a sign of the friendship between Dorne and House Targaryean and expressed his and his peoples desire for her to return to Westeros and that in the mean time he would remain in Mereen as an ambassador til she was ready to return to Westeros, this would buy him time to figure out the score with Danys advisors. He also blew it with the Windblown, if he had told Tatters who he was and why he needed to get to Mereen, IMO Tatters would have gone for it, it keeps his options open and gives him a backdoor channel to Dany if he wants turn his cloak and gives something for Quent to bring to the table besides 2 knights.

I don't have a problem with Quentyn but he showed poor judgement and no patience and he lacked imagination, his lack of hotness might have worked to his advantage, in a way it was better for him if she didn't take an obvious interest in him.