Dany's Reaction to Quentyn & would Dany have liked Quentyn if he was hot?

[Fearsome Fred]

Actually the perception that Drinkwater and Yronwood has might be very important, if they live and bring his body back to Dorne, it will be there words that Prince Doran or Arriane hear about Quentyns death and treatment by Dany.

I don't think so. Firstly, they are not about to return to Dorne. They have some other mission. Meanwhile, Dorne is on the verge of open war with the Iron Throne. Doran believes that war is inevitable and is desperate for allies. He is not likely to quibble over who laughed at who. Barring a 15-volume series, I cannot see Drink's perceptions becoming relevant to the story.

You are quite right Quentyn didn't seem to think at all, seeing that she was about to be married he could've backed off on the marriage thing and merely presented the treaty as a sign of the friendship between Dorne and House Targaryean and expressed his and his peoples desire for her to return to Westeros and that in the mean time he would remain in Mereen as an ambassador til she was ready to return to Westeros, this would buy him time to figure out the score with Danys advisors.

It was made pretty clear that if he had done that, King H would have had him assassinated. And as for Dany being favorably disposed toward Quentyn and Dorne, she made it pretty clear to him that she was. So THAT part of his mission succeeded.

He also blew it with the Windblown, if he had told Tatters who he was and why he needed to get to Mereen, IMO Tatters would have gone for it, it keeps his options open and gives him a backdoor channel to Dany if he wants turn his cloak and gives something for Quent to bring to the table besides 2 knights.

This is silly. Nothing more than monday morning quarterbacking. Who are you to say what "would have" happened?

I don't have a problem with Quentyn but he showed poor judgement and no patience and he lacked imagination [...]

This is a VERY strange accusation, considering what he tried to do. No imagination? Really?

[jarl the climber]

I don't think so. Firstly, they are not about to return to Dorne. They have some other mission. Meanwhile, Dorne is on the verge of open war with the Iron Throne. Doran believes that war is inevitable and is desperate for allies. He is not likely to quibble over who laughed at who. Barring a 15-volume series, I cannot see Drink's perceptions becoming relevant to the story.

It was made pretty clear that if he had done that, King H would have had him assassinated. And as for Dany being favorably disposed toward Quentyn and Dorne, she made it pretty clear to him that she was. So THAT part of his mission succeeded.

This is silly. Nothing more than monday morning quarterbacking. Who are you to say what "would have" happened?

This is a VERY strange accusation, considering what he tried to do.

We know that in the short term the 2 knights who were with Quentyn will go to Tatters with Barristans offer, after that anything could happen, there is no reason for both of them to stay after that, they left gold on account with the bankers of Volantis, why not offer that as a ransom so one of the knights can return home with the news of Quentyns death, preferably Yronwood because he is injured anyway.

We can see that Hizadar considered killing him because he was a rival suitor and perhaps as the poisoner if it wasn't him. From Hizadars point of veiw if Dany gave him an heir and left him in charge while she settled things in Westeros that would be a good thing. Actually Quentyn made no effort to get to know Hizadar or anyone else at court for that matter.

Hindsight is 20/20, but it is fair to criticize him for the way he dealt with the Windblown.

As far as any words Dany said to him about wanting Dornes friendship, words are wind.

His plot of kidnapping a dragon is one of the most ridiculous plots in the book. He had absolutely no reason to beleive that he could do this other than a beleif in his having dragons blood.

[Fearsome Fred]

Hindsight is 20/20, but it is fair to criticize him for the way he dealt with the Windblown.

As far as any words Dany said to him about wanting Dornes friendship, words are wind.

Especially words that are spoken with 20/20 hindsight.

His plot of kidnapping a dragon is one of the most ridiculous plots in the book. He had absolutely no reason to beleive that he could do this other than a beleif in his having dragons blood.

Is there a better reason? Calling him stupid because he failed is just 20/20 hindsight. Why not just be even-handed and say that anyone who tries to ride or control a dragon, including Dany, is a complete idiot.

(But I suspect he succeeded. See my thread "The Dragon Rider", in the aDwD section of this forum).

[ARYa_Nym]

Quentyn had no reason to think that his blood would prevent him from being killed by a dragon if he knew his history on the Dance of the Dragons.

Gerris was better looking, had more personality, and had more common sense imo.

"I have Targaryen blood in me, you know that. I can trace my lineage back-" "Fuck your lineage," said Gerris. "The dragons won't care about your blood, except maybe how it tastes. You cannot tame a dragon with a history lesson. They're monsters, not maesters. Quent, is this truly what you want to do?"

[Fearsome Fred]

Quentyn had no reason to think that his blood would prevent him from being killed by a dragon if he knew his history on the Dance of the Dragons.

Quent did not assume he was immune to being killed by dragons. He believed it was his duty to risk his life for his country.

Many people cannot understand this.

[seeyouintee]

Gerris was better looking, had more personality, and had more common sense imo.

Along with being a good character... then again that never stopped Dany from riding a dragon.

[ARYa_Nym]

Quent did not assume he was immune to being killed by dragons. He believed it was his duty to risk his life for his country.

Many people cannot understand this.

He had to know that no one has ever ridden two dragons and that there were two down there. How did he expect to control both of them?

[Fearsome Fred]

He had to know that no one has ever ridden two dragons and that there were two down there.

He only intended to ride one of them.

How did he expect to control both of them?

He intended to overfeed the second, chain it while in a torpor-filled sleep, and then transport it while chained.

Even if it became clear that the second part of the plan could not work, when he saw that Rhaegal has melted his chains, the first part of the plan remained a possibility.

[ARYa_Nym]

He only intended to ride one of them.

He intended to overfeed the second, chain it while in a torpor-filled sleep, and then transport it while chained.

Even if it became clear that the second part of the plan could not work, when he saw the melted chains, the first part of the plan remained a possibility.

It was a stupid idea. Even if he could control one he had no assurance to control the other one. He should have listened to Gerris.

[jarl the climber]

Especially words that are spoken with 20/20 hindsight.

Is there a better reason? Calling him stupid because he failed is just 20/20 hindsight. Why not just be even-handed and say that anyone who tries to ride or control a dragon, including Dany, is a complete idiot.

(But I suspect he succeeded. See my thread "The Dragon Rider", in the aDwD section of this forum).

Lets see Dany helped hatch the dragons, she nursed them and fed them when they were young and seems to have a mystival connection to them, ecspecially Drogon. Euron is sending Victorian with a dragon horn and a 100 ship fleet. Tyrion has been studying dragons his whole life. These things all required work and effort and patience, this young guy walking in their thinking he is going to ride a dragon home to Dorne because he is the prince is forgivable, thats been working for him his entire life but it was an idiotic plan.

Words are wind is not hindsight, it is the truth, any words Dany had for him were wind, plain and simple, I think he considered the Windblown to be scum and this blinded him from seeing their potential use, which as soldiers not dragon theives.

I've read your theory about Quentyn and I disagree with it.

[WenchofTarth]

Quentyn only has himself to blame, showing up basically empty handed saying that they were promised to be married and that an army was waiting for her but not anywhere near Mereen where she was in need of it. If he had the brains of a turnip he should have realized that he was bringing her nothing of substance. He was a fool and if Dany may have mishandled the meeting that was all. There were rather more pressing issues for her to deal with after all,

[ARYa_Nym]

I think Dany will definitely suffer a Dornish alliance. Her problem was that she became more focused on Mereen and lost sight of her goal in Westeros. She seemed to realize this in her last chapter but Dorne is probably lost to her now.

On the matter of Quentyn I think that he was a nice guy but his death was his fault. He must have had a death wish. He was clearly not prepared to deal with two dragons and paid for it. I remember there was even a point where someone asked, "weren't there two of them?" That should have been a sign that the idea was complete fail.

[Lord Godric]

I'm surprised to see the Quentyn-hatred here and not the Dany-hatred. Because when I read those scenes between Quenyn and Dany the only thing that I could think about was how far removed Dany had grown from her true course and it was *that* moment that made me despise Dany.

[jarl the climber]

I'm surprised to see the Quentyn-hatred here and not the Dany-hatred. Because when I read those scenes between Quenyn and Dany the only thing that I could think about was how far removed Dany had grown from her true course and it was *that* moment that made me despise Dany.

Dealing with 15-16 year old girls requires a lot of patience, most lessons are learned and not taught. The thought of a worlds fate hanging in the balance is frightening but you can't really criticize Dany for losing sight of things for awhile or pursuing an unwise relationship. In all fairness she was trying to prove that she could rule and make peace with her enemies hopefuly she learns something from it. I actually thought Quentyn was a likable chap but he was always trying to take the second step before he took the first.

Usng your avatar as an example, do you think Tyrion is just go to walk up to the dragons and try to ride one? Absolutely not. He will talk to Dany about what he has read so he can make some determinations about the truth of it. He will try to spend time with them and find some way to communicate, given time he will try to design a saddle probaly for Dany first and then come up with one for himself and then if he can get his saddle on Rhaegar or Viserion he will try to ride one of them and he wil maybe do this with Danys permission, but it will totlly different than what BarbecuQuentyn did.

[seeyouintee]

To be fair I think Dany's a cunt AND Quentyn's a tool.

[Fearsome Fred]

Quentyn only has himself to blame, showing up basically empty handed saying that they were promised to be married and that an army was waiting for her but not anywhere near Mereen where she was in need of it.

Only himself to blame? Not his Lord Father, whose plan it was, and who sent him, and to whom he owed obedience?

Edit: And how is it Quentyn's fault that the situation at Meereen, when he arrived, was not conducive to his mission? How was he to know? Should he have googled "Meereen: current events" immediately before teleporting instantly to the location?

[Lord Godric]

Dealing with 15-16 year old girls requires a lot of patience, most lessons are learned and not taught. The thought of a worlds fate hanging in the balance is frightening but you can't really criticize Dany for losing sight of things for awhile or pursuing an unwise relationship. In all fairness she was trying to prove that she could rule and make peace with her enemies hopefuly she learns something from it.

What is frustrating with Dany, for me, can not be explained away because she is a horny teenager. My main problem is that she has completely regressed. Whereas, as a younger woman, she kept her intentions of returning to Westeros always in her mind here she completely disregards doing the thing that she should do simply because Quentyn isn't as exciting as Daario. It was the culmination of books and years of frustration with Dany slowly wandering away from Westeros and her true destiny and, while it was remedied (or seemingly so) in Dany's final chapter, it was her complete dismissal of Quentyn that brought Dany's character to this point of absolute loathing for me.

As for learning something from trying to rule, I'm not sure she really learned anything. All of the real political movement occurred when she was wandering the desert. So the fact that she not only has completely lost sight of her goals, but to do so while unsuccessfully ruling and learning nothing about ruling or even her own family and heritage was too much for me.

ETA:

Usng your avatar as an example, do you think Tyrion is just go to walk up to the dragons and try to ride one? Absolutely not. He will talk to Dany about what he has read so he can make some determinations about the truth of it. He will try to spend time with them and find some way to communicate, given time he will try to design a saddle probaly for Dany first and then come up with one for himself and then if he can get his saddle on Rhaegar or Viserion he will try to ride one of them and he wil maybe do this with Danys permission, but it will totlly different than what BarbecuQuentyn did.

I was not trying to defend Quentyn with my claims against Dany. Quentyn's actions were foolish and brash, although well-intended. And they only happened as a last act of desperation after Dany refused him.

[Rhaegar Targaryen's Ghost]

There were 2 problems. 1. Dany is shallow. One of the first details she notices about people is how good looking they are. If Robb Stark had shown up instead, or someone like Loras (it is often talked about how they are good looking) things may have gone very differently. 2. The only thing that lets Dany see past looks is what they bring to the table that she can use. Had he shown up with 100 ships and 20,000 men, she might have been able to get past the fact that he wasn't very good looking. One of the reasons that YG might have the best chance. Tyrion describes him as being very good looking, "this beardless boy could have any maiden in the Seven Kingdoms, blue hair or no. Those eyes of his would melt them."- ADWD 182-183. Plus, he has the Golden Company.

[jarl the climber]

What is frustrating with Dany, for me, can not be explained away because she is a horny teenager. My main problem is that she has completely regressed. Whereas, as a younger woman, she kept her intentions of returning to Westeros always in her mind here she completely disregards doing the thing that she should do simply because Quentyn isn't as exciting as Daario. It was the culmination of books and years of frustration with Dany slowly wandering away from Westeros and her true destiny and, while it was remedied (or seemingly so) in Dany's final chapter, it was her complete dismissal of Quentyn that brought Dany's character to this point of absolute loathing for me.

As for learning something from trying to rule, I'm not sure she really learned anything. All of the real political movement occurred when she was wandering the desert. So the fact that she not only has completely lost sight of her goals, but to do so while unsuccessfully ruling and learning nothing about ruling or even her own family and heritage was too much for me.

ETA: I was not trying to defend Quentyn with my claims against Dany. Quentyn's actions were foolish and brash, although well-intended. And they only happened as a last act of desperation after Dany refused him.

The thing you have to understand about Dany is that in the Game of Thrones so to speak she became a peice not a player when she became the Queen of Mereen, people were able to move her because she wanted peace, people like the Yunkish Lord, the Green Grace, Hizadar, and Rezanek. She has an affair with Daario partialy as an act of rebellion against them. Ser Barristan becomes this helpless but well meaning Ser Granfather guy in her eyes. I think if Quentyn was good looking she might have screwed him to piss people off but I don't think she would have ended her marriage to Hizadar over it, and it probaly would've gotten Quentyn killed by Daario or Hizadar.

I think it is normal for a young girl like Dany to be preoccupied by a mans looks. Life is not fair.

[Lord Godric]

The thing you have to understand about Dany is that in the Game of Thrones so to speak she became a peice not a player when she became the Queen of Mereen, people were able to move her because she wanted peace, people like the Yunkish Lord, the Green Grace, Hizadar, and Rezanek. She has an affair with Daario partialy as an act of rebellion against them. Ser Barristan becomes this helpless but well meaning Ser Granfather guy in her eyes. I think if Quentyn was good looking she might have screwed him to piss people off but I don't think she would have ended her marriage to Hizadar over it, and it probaly would've gotten Quentyn killed by Daario or Hizadar.

I think it is normal for a young girl like Dany to be preoccupied by a mans looks. Life is not fair.

"Teenage rebellion" is not enough to justify her actions. Dany has shown that she is perfectly knowledgeable of politics, but now she wants to go play "little girl" instead of doing what she should. It doesn't justify her actions, only adds to my hatred for her.