Dany's Reaction to Quentyn & would Dany have liked Quentyn if he was hot?

[teemo]

The thing you have to understand about Dany is that in the Game of Thrones so to speak she became a peice not a player when she became the Queen of Mereen, people were able to move her because she wanted peace, people like the Yunkish Lord, the Green Grace, Hizadar, and Rezanek. She has an affair with Daario partialy as an act of rebellion against them. Ser Barristan becomes this helpless but well meaning Ser Granfather guy in her eyes. I think if Quentyn was good looking she might have screwed him to piss people off but I don't think she would have ended her marriage to Hizadar over it, and it probaly would've gotten Quentyn killed by Daario or Hizadar.

I think it is normal for a young girl like Dany to be preoccupied by a mans looks. Life is not fair.

Wow, you make her sound really awful. I agree, except for the last sentence. She is regressing, like someone else mentioned.

[Faint]

To be clear, Quentyn cannot be faulted for the manner in which Daenerys is approaching her stated goal of regaining her father's throne, which, to be quite frank, is not in the least bit conducive to achieving that objective. Marrying a foreign lord? Delaying when the realm is in chaos and ripe for new leadership? Doing absolutely nothing to inform yourself about the state of Westeros and its politics?

Such folly is why the theory that Daenerys subconsciously does not want to return to Westeros has gained such traction and is probably deserving of more merit than it currently receives.

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

Danny rejected Quentyn for the situation in Mereen and Quentyn didn't do anything particularly wrong to be rejected. Both's faults, their immaturity, and so on did not really play much of a role for that even if Danny's should have not laughed.

Then there is a discussion for how Quentyn could help in another way. And then in the pit, there was an assasination attempt and Drogon's appearance who carried Danny's away, with the result being most people presuming Danny dead and after that there were even talks of the Dragons being slayed and that noble who did not like Quentyn and was Danny's husband took power. And then Quentyn came with his plan B which was a failure.

I think it is not Quentyn's meeting with Danny that doomed him but just the bad circumstances of Mereen and the danger to Danny and especially that event on the pit, and the consequences of that event. There was a real danger of Quentyn having to go back empty handed and he took a risk to succeed his mission. Of course that might had been his mistake, he might have instead just attempted to cut his loses and leave. Though it is easier to say that in hindsight. Quentyn did not want to go back as loser but he did get himself killed.

[Fearsome Fred]

To be clear, Quentyn cannot be faulted for the manner in which Daenerys is approaching her stated goal of regaining her father's throne, which, to be quite frank, is not in the least bit conducive to achieving that objective. Marrying a foreign lord? Delaying when the realm is in chaos and ripe for new leadership? Doing absolutely nothing to inform yourself about the state of Westeros and its politics?

She is trying to rule Meereen. She feels morally responsible for the fate of Meereen, as well she should.

Now, in story terms, Dany is obviously fated to go to Westeros, and I too am impatient for her to do this as quickly and efficiently as possible, whether as a hero or as a villain.

But in moral terms? Why is it hard to understand that being a good ruler can and should take precedent over being a proud and ruthless conqueror who bathes all of Westeros in fire and blood?

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

Neither Quentyn or Danny can be faulted for Danny rejecting Quentyn.

[Fearsome Fred]

Neither Quentyn or Danny can be faulted for Danny rejecting Quentyn.

That about sums it up.

[Lord Godric]

She is trying to rule Meereen. She feels morally responsible for the fate of Meereen, as well she should.

Now, in story terms, Dany is obviously fated to go to Westeros, and I too am impatient for her to do this as quickly and efficiently as possible, whether as a hero or as a villain.

But in moral terms? Why is it hard to understand that being a good ruler can and should take precedent over being a proud and ruthless conqueror who bathes all of Westeros in fire and blood?

It wouldn't be as frustrating if Dany actually had been a good ruler in Meereen. If Dany had learned something about ruling people, or even controlling people. If she had managed to learn about the problems with her ancestors and why the throne was taken from them. But she didn't. And she did not reject Quentyn to rule Meereen; she didn't even end up ruling Meereen, she deserted Meereen having learned nothing. She rejected Quentyn because she decided now was the best time to be a horny, stupid teenager. Whereas before she was Daenerys Stormborn, The Unburnt, Mother of Dragons, Khaleesi, yadda yadda, now she just really wants to have sex with Daario and put her feet up. If she had stopped in Meereen to rule and effectively ruled, I would have been only slightly annoyed instead of developing full-fledged hate for her because she went backwards.

[Blood.of.my.Blood]

I don't think she deserted mereen, she tried to save her dragon and ultimately put herself at the whim of a wild animal that is as of yet completely untrained. She has little say on where he takes her, but her goal did appear to be to return to mereen.

[imany]

She rejected Quentyn because she decided now was the best time to be a horny, stupid teenager.

... what? That isn't why she rejected Quentyn, although the fact that he was not hot probably made the whole thing easier for her. Daario was unwise, but she was never going to defect on the marriage to Hizdahr after it had been arranged.

If she had stopped in Meereen to rule and effectively ruled, I would have been only slightly annoyed instead of developing full-fledged hate for her because she went backwards.

When this point of view is presented on the forums, I become confused as to what Dany was expected to do. Take the advice of the Shavepate and actually kill the hostages? Not listen to the Green Grace, who has treated her quite kindly face to face? She sacked three cities and needed a place to rest; I can't really fault her for crying uncle after all the shit that was happening. It's tough to fight against guerrilla tactics.

Dany is learning, I hope. That or she's taking Drogon and the khalasar back to raze the city. Either one would be fine with me.

Dany's marriage to Hizdahr -was- shortsighted with regard to Westeros. However, Dany is accustomed to living hand to mouth, so to speak. Settling down in one place to try to rule it was already a huge decision for her. She would not have married Hizdahr if she felt she had other choices for her people, who at that point in time constituted the freedmen, the Unsullied, etc. As an aside, she is also still not the current most-married Queen of the Seven Kingdoms.

[Fearsome Fred]

But she didn't. And she did not reject Quentyn to rule Meereen;

She rejected Quentyn to marry King H (sorry, I can never remember his name). She married King H to bring peace to Meereen.

She rejected Quentyn because she decided now was the best time to be a horny, stupid teenager.

Nonsense. She did not reject Quentyn for Daario. She rejected him for King H, who she certainly did NOT have the hots for.

[False Spring]

Where was anyone during that period? Where was Barristan? Where were the Tyrells? Where was Tyrion? Where were the ironborn?

The only reason anyone is giving her the time of day is because she has dragons. The sooner she realizes that, the better off she'll be.

And the only reason those who are in her inner circle have those positions are because they have served her faithfully and proven themselves to her. Quentyn came to her under false pretenses with a marriage pact. He came to her promising 50,000 spears a owlrd away. Maybe if Quentyn excercised Doran's signature patience and spent the time to prove himself to Dany he could have forged a strog alliance with her marriage withstanding. Instead, he showed his own naivety and brashness and tried to steal a dragon and is currently pretty well done.

And for all of these pathetic arguments claiming Dany's cruelty, a lot of you could care less that she has set her mind to seeing the Meereen situation to some semblance of peace and resolution. It's Westeros or bust for you guys. If readers shelved these Twilight-esque personal feelings to these characters and utilized just a bit of rationality and context, they'd stop holding their desire for Dany to get to Westeros against her. She's got much more pressing matters. If she turned her back on Meereen, the same posters would criticize her for being an immature teenager who didn't see her ventures to the end and thought little of the lives she was effecting in the first place.

As for how Dorne will react to Quentyn's death, maybe I'm giving Doran too much credit, but when he's told his son was laughed at and proceded to try and steal a dragon (and fricaseed in the process), I think he'll be wise enough to see the fault was in Quentyn. Dany's laughter will not be what tips the scales in Aegon's favor. In one breath, some of you insist on reminding us the only reason Dorne is giving her the time of day is because of her dragons, yet when she finally reaches the shores of Westeros with said dragons Dorne will have allied with the alleged son of Rheagar all over a laugh. There are Mr. Fantastic levels of reaching going on here.

[Silmarien]

Quentyn made a public proposal in front of her Mereeneese court the day before her wedding (If I recall correctly) - of course she couldn't have accepted it. I don't think ti mattered how he looked.

She made an attempt to spend time with him and show him her dragons, and likely would have taken him more seriously once her affairs in Mereen were finished, had all that other shit not gone down (the pit incident and what not).

The entire scheme was ridiculous - expecting her to honor an agreement made for Arianna and Viserys, which did not even mention her name.

Dorne wanted her Dragons - this wasn't a matchmaking attempt. Let's get real here.

ETA: Quentyn's attempt to steal her dragons didn't help, either, and would have pissed her off royally (no pun intended) had he succeeded, either. He is no better than Victarion if he does indeed attempt to use the dragon horn to steal one of Dany's dragons.

[Solaris]

Yes, Dany behaved terribly, and the problem is that she's just too much in the Meerreen situation, she doesnt know what she wants, if it is Slaver's Bay or Westeros. She'll never have both, never... and she choosed SB over Dorne by choosing Hizdhar over Quentyn... she was silly, and is now stuck in the area for even longer...

And I felt personally really close to Quentyn during the reading, so I have some real bitterness towards Dany on this point.

:agree:

[Fearsome Fred]

ETA: Quentyn's attempt to steal her dragons didn't help, either, and would have pissed her off royally (no pun intended) had he succeeded, either.

He did not try to steal them from Dany. He tried to steal them from King H, who was planning to have them killed.

Dany was missing, presumed dead, and no longer available to ask permission. And he believed (not entirely unreasonably) that she had encouraged him to make such an attempt.

[Bran Vras]

The entire scheme was ridiculous - expecting her to honor an agreement made for Arianna and Viserys, which did not even mention her name.

True. It's even underlined by this conversion between Illyrio and Tyrion:

“Are we back to that again? You are a persistent little man.” Illyrio gave a laugh and slapped his belly. “As you will. The Beggar King swore that I should be his master of coin, and a lordly lord as well. Once he wore his golden crown, I should have my choice of castles ... even Casterly Rock, if I desired.”

Tyrion snorted wine back up the scarred stump that had been his nose. “My father would have loved to hear that.”

“Your lord father had no cause for concern. Why would I want a rock? My manse is large enough for any man, and more comfortable than your drafty Westerosi castles. Master of coin, though ...” The

fat man peeled another egg. “I am fond of coins. Is there any sound as sweet as the clink of gold on gold?”

A sister’s screams. “Are you quite certain that Daenerys will make good her brother’s promises?”

“She will, or she will not.”

At several points in Tyrion's chapters, there are indications that Quentyn's mission was problematic from the start. This is just one among several comparison points put under our eyes by GRRM.

[Roose Seal]

I don't think at that time she had any options other than turning down his offer : her engagement to Hizdar, the whole situation in Meereen, Quentyn's "promise" of 50'000 swords was obviously unrealistic, and many other reasons. The manner in which she turned it down, however, will come back to bite her in the ass, I am convinced of it. She surely couldn't say "Yes" but she also could've remained courteous about it.

I'm not sure Doran will be elated when Quentyn's companion hand Doran the charred corpse of his son and tell him about how the Mother of Dragons laughed at him in front of the entire court. We know how information travels in Westeros and Essos, by the time the news reaches Doran's ears I wouldn't be surprised if "she laughed at him then turned him down politely" becomes "and then she spat in his face and made Daario strip him naked and made everyone laugh at his tiny willy and asked him to jump around and croak like a frog and then she set one of her dragons on him and the entire court laughed as they watched him fry".

Quentyn was one of the highlights of DwD for me. He was a surprisingly endearing character, considering what little screentime he got and how misguided his mission was from the start. I was genuinely bummed when he roasted.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

"Teenage rebellion" is not enough to justify her actions. Dany has shown that she is perfectly knowledgeable of politics, but now she wants to go play "little girl" instead of doing what she should. It doesn't justify her actions, only adds to my hatred for her.

Yep. She can be the conqueror queen or she can be "just a young girl" who doesn't know what she's doing. She can't be both and the coy shtick gets old fast.

When this point of view is presented on the forums, I become confused as to what Dany was expected to do. Take the advice of the Shavepate and actually kill the hostages? Not listen to the Green Grace, who has treated her quite kindly face to face? She sacked three cities and needed a place to rest; I can't really fault her for crying uncle after all the shit that was happening. It's tough to fight against guerrilla tactics.

1. She didn't have to kill the hostages. But telling the Harpy of Meereen (the one who "treated her quite kindly face to face" and was working to destroy her behind the scenes) that she would not kill the hostages was about the stupidest thing she could have done. It all but said, "Do whatever you want, I won't go through with my threat." Having hostages only works if your enemies are convinced that you will carry out your threat if they misbehave (look at Theon and Ned). Telling suspiciously friendly old ladies that you're only taking hostages for the lulz kind of defeats the purpose of having them.

2. It irks me to no end when people talk about sacking the cities as if it's something that happened to her -- like she's a passive player -- instead of something she actively did. She broke it, she bought it.

[Lady Blackfyre]

Meh. I always took Daenerys' catch phrase ("But what do I know? I'm just a young girl") to mean something like "Yes, I'm young, but I know what I'm talking about" or "Yes, I'm young, but I'm still your Queen and you better listen to me, or else...". I don't think it was ever meant (by her) to be taken literally. She doesn't really mean it, and her interlocutors all know it.

[WenchofTarth]

Only himself to blame? Not his Lord Father, whose plan it was, and who sent him, and to whom he owed obedience?

Edit: And how is it Quentyn's fault that the situation at Meereen, when he arrived, was not conducive to his mission? How was he to know? Should he have googled "Meereen: current events" immediately before teleporting instantly to the location?

So he shouldn't have come up with a Plan B? Something beyond saying "we got to get married! come with me now!". Perhaps have her get to know him a bit? Whatever he and his father may have originally wanted Quentyn should have seen that it wasn't going to work. Why should I sympathize with him? He wasn't very smart to begin with, his idiocy regarding his little brainstorm with Dany's dragons shows that clear enough.

[Serie]

Dany followed Quaithe's prophecy: "

The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal"

IMHO best thing she could do. And since Quentyn showed a certain attitude, her behaviour was justified. After all she is the Queen and he was the beggar. If she was soft and sweet we'd be here blaming her for being too soft and sweet.