The Hound (spoilers)

[Arya_Stark666]

NOOOOOOOO! I just finished he chapter where they found his body. He just can't be dead! He was supposed to marry Sansa and be an awesome Lord somewhere and have little puppies *sobs* :bawl:

However, that septon did lead me to believe that "the Hound" was only a part of Sandor's personality that died - not the actual man himself. Which would mean, and I hope beyond hope, that Sandor is actually alive and living on Quiet Isle someplace.

And I REALLY want him to show up again. Do you think he will?

[Drowsey Dragon]

NOOOOOOOO! I just finished he chapter where they found his body. He just can't be dead! He was supposed to marry Sansa and be an awesome Lord somewhere and have little puppies *sobs* :bawl:

However, that septon did lead me to believe that "the Hound" was only a part of Sandor's personality that died - not the actual man himself. Which would mean, and I hope beyond hope, that Sandor is actually alive and living on Quiet Isle someplace.

And I REALLY want him to show up again. Do you think he will?

I never thought of what he said was just refering to the hound as his personality and he may yet live. Can you quote the passage that gave you this impression?

[kephv]

Spoiler (it's from Brienne's Quiet Isle chapter, but I'm warning incase you like figuring things out for yourself):

He's the gravedigger

[Gryz the BlackSmith]

Spoiler (it's from Brienne's Quiet Isle chapter, but I'm warning incase you like figuring things out for yourself):

He's the gravedigger

Do we know that for sure ?

or is it just the general assumption amongst readers ?

I would assume that the Hound has a very recognizable face.

And that anyone in the 7 kingdoms that has ever met him, would recognize him immediately.

When the gravedigger is described, there is no mention of any burnscars or marks or anything.

I hope Sandor is still alive. But I'm not so sure.

[Ser Leo Targaryen]

i agree with Gryz. had to go back to the chapter and didn't see anything that would point on this way so certainly...

Not that I wouldn't like it if it was true, just that it is way too vague to go spreading the news with such conviction!

[Plem]

I think he is dead. And even though I like him, I think it's good that he is. His last scene with Arya was so beautifully written I would hate for it to be negated by saying "well, he made it after all, fooled ya". There are so many characters who have fake deaths or come back from the dead, it would be kind of refreshing for him to just stay dead.

[kephv]

Do we know that for sure ?

or is it just the general assumption amongst readers ?

I would assume that the Hound has a very recognizable face.

And that anyone in the 7 kingdoms that has ever met him, would recognize him immediately.

When the gravedigger is described, there is no mention of any burnscars or marks or anything.

I hope Sandor is still alive. But I'm not so sure.

I thought so at first too, but I was pointed to the fact that the people there are all cowled (so his face was hidden) and fully robed. Most likely that's the reason we didn't get a description, but he is noted as being very tall (taller than Brienne) and lame (he was injured in the leg last time we saw him).

There's the words of the Elder Brother to consider as well. He says the Hound is dead but Sandor is at rest. Also, there's probably no way anyone would've gotten Stranger to the Quite Isle if not for the Hound.

[Debb2]

I've read a few comments about a romance between Sansa and the Hound, which I just can't accept! I think he's quite clearly a cruel and opportunistic man, certainly not an ideal man for Sansa. I think the best we could have hoped for was a more uncle-niece like relationship.

[alnes]

I don't agree with the gravedigger-theory. Sure, it's possible, by now I don't take anybody's being dead for granted as long as I haven't read that the person's head was cut off and that was seen by a PoV character.

The priest talking to Brienne:

"[...] The man you hunt is dead." ...

B: "How did he die?" - P: "By the sword, as he had lived."

B: "You know this for a certainty?" - P: "I buried him myself. I can tell you where his grave lies, if you wish. I covered him with stones to keep the carrion eaters from digging up his flesh..."

So definitely not just talking about the Hound personality. The priest could have lied, but why would he then offer Brienne to tell her, where his grave was and talk about keeping his corpse from being eaten?

I hope he stays dead. Too many resurrections. And though he's not evil, he's still a pretty bad guy.

[Dragonborn]

I really hope he is alive, he was one of my favorite characters!

There are a couple of things that stood out to me when I was reading the Brienne chapters of aFfC,

1.The Gravedigger

• The size of the novice that was digging the grave for brother Clement and his lameness are consistent with the physical description of the hound and the wounds he received.
  

"On the upper slopes they saw three boys driving sheep, and higher still they passed a lichyard where a brother bigger than Brienne was struggling to dig a grave. From the way he moved, it was plain to see he was lame." (page 523)

• When he is adressed, he lowers his head which I interpreted as trying to hide his face, maybe to sure that his scars were not visible beneath his cowl, which would be a dead giveaway to his identity?
  

"The gravedigger lowered his head. When Dog went to sniff him he dropped his spade and scratched his ear." (page 523) (Also, he has a soft spot for dogs?)

2. Stranger

I don't think anyone could get Stranger into a stall but Sandor. My impression is that he is pretty much unnaproachble to anyone besides Sandor or approved company. Have any of you ever tried to handle over six hundred kilos of uncooperative horse flesh? I have, and it's not fun, :drunk:

Plus, Stranger is mean. Due to a mixture of his temperament and training as a war horse, he would be likely to both bite and strike anyone who approached him, escpecially if those people were trying to force him into a cinfined space,

3. The Elder Brother

• During Brienne's conversation with the Elder Brother about the Hound, he seems to know an awful lot about his life and personality, more so than I would expect from knowing him in his dying hours:
  

" 'He served, but found no pride in service. He fought, but took no pride in victory. He drank, to drown his pain in a sea of wine. He did not love, nor was he loved himself. It was hate that drove him. Though he commited many sins, he never sought forgiveness. Where other men dreamt of love, or wealth, or glory, this man Sandor Clegane dreamt of slaying his own brother, a sin so terrible it makes me shudder to speak of it. Yet that was the bread that nourished him, the fuel that kept his fires burning.Ignoble as it was, the hope of seeing his brother's blood upon his blade was all this sad and angry creature lived for...and even that was taken from him...'

'You sound as if you pity him,' said Brienne.

'I did. You would have pitied him as well, if you had seen him at the end.' " (Page 530)

The Elder brither then goes on to describe his efforts to save/make him comfortable, and when he does describe the death, he specifically says that 'The hound' died in his arms, not Sandor.

• The thing that made me most suspicios of Sandor's death is the Elder brother that Brienne talked to about the Hound has a pretty peculiar idea of death. Before he speaks to her about Sandor, he tells her of his own 'death':
  

" 'All in all, I was a sad man. When I was not fighting, I was drunk. My life was writ in red, in blood and wine'

'When did it change?' asked Brienne.

'When I died in the Battle of the Trident' " (pg 531)

He then continues to describe his life after death as a kind of 'second life' and that a certain part of his personality was what had perished rather than his physical body, effectively rendering him a changed/new man.

After he has talked at length about about this process, Brienne is uncertain.

" 'I see.' Brienne did not know why he was telling her all of this, or what else she out to say.

'Do you?' He leaned forward, his big hands on his knees. 'If so, give up on this quest of yours, the hound is dead...' " (Page 532)

From this I kind of got the feeling that the same kind of thing happened to Sandor. GRRM has always been fond of a gory and undeniable death scene, so why not here ?

[Robin Of House Hill]

The priest knows too much about Sandor to have gotten his information just listening to him in his final moments.

Maybe that is wishful thinking.

[Ygrette]

Oh wow.

Actually I started this thread thinking there's just another one who can't accept the fact that one of our favourite characters died (he was one of mine for sure and I was really sad to have his end confirmed). But I really like this idea and it's even plausible. Now that would be cool. We will probably never know the truth (like with Syrio Forel), but for now, I will cling to this idea, it's brilliant!

[Vic-tarion Rattlehead]

Oh wow.

Actually I started this thread thinking there's just another one who can't accept the fact that one of our favourite characters died (he was one of mine for sure and I was really sad to have his end confirmed). But I really like this idea and it's even plausible. Now that would be cool. We will probably never know the truth (like with Syrio Forel), but for now, I will cling to this idea, it's brilliant!

I wouldn't bet on it: while Syrio was mostly a minor character (appeared for half a book, and vanished without a trace), Sandor was very prominent (in person or behind his back) even after parting his ways with Arya. So I think, GRRM will provide him some kind of closure in his later books, eventualy. And till we've seen his head rolling - his death is not confirmed.

[7V3N]

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Read this thread (ADWD Spoilers). It is about the possibility of the Hound being alive and the possible role he may yet have to play.

[Ygrette]

Shadow Fox,

I will save this thread for later, because I don't want to spoil ADwD yet, but thank you for pointing it out!

[Dragonborn]

Just had a little scroll through the thread The Shadow Fox mentioned, general concensus is that the Sandor Clegane is indeed alive.

[7V3N]

Yeah I didn't pick up the gravedigger thing, so I had assumed he was dead. When I read that he might be alive, I jumped in joy. As mean as the Hound is, I (like most of us) see a good side of Sandor that is covered up by the hatred for Gregor and the lack of love.

[Ygrette]

You know, I work with aggressive dogs for a living, so... the Hound has always touched me on a very personal level. In my personal interpretation, all of his evil behaviour is simply based on crappy socialisation and a lot of pain and fear. Just like a mistreated dog. God, this sounds as if I want to adopt him and take him home. But hey... I'll be content with seeing him again at one point.

I had always wished he'd save someone from Gregor by killing his brother and hereby finding some kind of peace and redemption, but that is SO unlike GRRM that I don't even dare to hope for such a cheesy outcome. I'm not a happy end type otherwise. But the Hound... okay, where are the adoption papers? :D

[7V3N]

You know, I work with aggressive dogs for a living, so... the Hound has always touched me on a very personal level. In my personal interpretation, all of his evil behaviour is simply based on crappy socialisation and a lot of pain and fear. Just like a mistreated dog. God, this sounds as if I want to adopt him and take him home. But hey... I'll be content with seeing him again at one point.

I had always wished he'd save someone from Gregor by killing his brother and hereby finding some kind of peace and redemption, but that is SO unlike GRRM that I don't even dare to hope for such a cheesy outcome. I'm not a happy end type otherwise. But the Hound... okay, where are the adoption papers? :D

Yes, but GRRM did not think the Hound would be the hero of the readers. He has said he is amazed by his readers' love for the Hound. Also, killing Gregor makes him a kinslayer, so he would not find peace in his life, but in his mind. The Hound is no hero, just like he is no ser.

[So1ar]

I'm pretty sure he is the gravedigger. His description matches the hound pretty well from when we last saw him. Also, Sansa befriends a dog in this book who is also lame. I don't think it's a coincidence. Or we may never see the hound again, and it will be up to the readers to figure out whether he is dead or finally "at peace".