Sansa not a Lannister

[Nausicaä]

lol I could surly use you on the other thread

Anyways how does annulments happen in Westeros? Are there any "old god priests" who can call the marriage void, because it was not in the Weirwoods. Because it will have to be a divorce, Tyrion "plans on living"

Sansa herself can make the marriage void by giving up the Seven, IMO.* Like Melisandre said, a vow sworn to a false god means no more than a vow sworn to your shoes. (This could be featured in Stannis' storyline: he refuses to renew his marriage to Selyse in a R'hllor ceremony, so if Shireen ends up being/is almost burned to wake the stone dragons, I expect one of the arguments to be that she's a bastard born of invalid marriage and no true heir of his.)

ETA: I don't think she would do that, to clarify; it's just one path that she could have went if she wasn't as devoted. I think she will get the annulment and marry her next husband in both the sept and the godswood.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

Oh f*ck the realm (or relm). These stupid dynastic marriages fail as often -- in fact in the story -- more often than they succeed.

And why wouldn't Sansa want to be married to Tyrion? Because he could give her the pox, that's why. There are a lot of whores in that world, and as far as I can tell, no condoms and no penicillan.

Sansa always has the option of a "Westeros divorce," -- y'know, poison (she still has the hairnet!), a jug of wine and an angry boar, a shadow baby, an enormous angry sword-slinging boyfriend, a weasly litte "dad" who can hire enormous angry sword-slinging hitmen, a moon door, the most dangerous kid sister in the world, an angry little brother with an angrier big direwolf, etc., etc., etc. . . . :D I say she should make the little shit fly and then find her own bliss.

[Gingerly Grumkin]

Sansa herself can make the marriage void by giving up the Seven, IMO.* Like Melisandre said, a vow sworn to a false god means no more than a vow sworn to your shoes.

nice!

Sansa always has the option of a "Westeros divorce," -- y'know, poison (she still has the hairnet!), a jug of wine and an angry boar, a shadow baby, an enormous angry sword-slinging boyfriend, a weasly litte "dad" who can hire enormous angry sword-slinging hitmen, a moon door, the most dangerous kid sister in the world, an angry little brother with an angrier big direwolf, etc., etc., etc. . . . :D I say she should make the little shit fly and then find her own bliss.

*gasp* Kinslayers are cursed in the eyes of gods and men! To kill your Lord Husband... And political marriages are cool, Cat & Ned worked out. And to all the kill every Lannister person out there, genocide is wrong

[Christina Ceriddwynn]

Tyrion doesn't want Sansa....he's saving himself for Ndrew :P~~~~~

:drool:

[Gingerly Grumkin]

Tyrion doesn't want Sansa....he's saving himself for Ndrew :P~~~~~

:drool:

.lol...hmm... lol... i got nothing

[Christina Ceriddwynn]

.lol...hmm... lol... i got nothing

OMG............the world is ending! BWAHAHAHAHAAH

[Grail King]

Sansa will never allow a Lanister to claim her home, even if that means she stays hidden :crying:

ETA whoa! I got a promotion.

[Nausicaä]

nice!

*gasp* Kinslayers are cursed in the eyes of gods and men! To kill your Lord Husband... And political marriages are cool, Cat & Ned worked out. And to all the kill every Lannister person out there, genocide is wrong

If that last bit is directed at me, I didn't mean "kill them all", I meant "destroy their house". :P You don't need to go all Tywin on one to do that: take hostages, take Casterly Rock and Lannisport, their money, their land and their influence away from them and they are done. No need for Sansa to be in a miserable marriage with the family that destroyed hers for peace if that family is a non-entity and doesn't get a say in whether there will be peace in the realm or not.

[Raksha the Demon]

By the time Tyrion returns to Westeros and can claim Casterly Rock and make his claim stick; Rickon will probably be in Manderly's hands and declared as Lord Stark; so Tyrion would not be able to claim Winterfell on Sansa's behalf - unless he'd like to dispute the matter with Manderly, Osha, Rickon and Shaggydog, and oh yes, the Boltons (if there are any left). Why would Tyrion want to hold onto the marriage, when it's obvious he and Sansa would be miserable together; and he might still manage to find a bride who wouldn't hate him, or just party on with whores and adopt a young Lannister cousin/nephew as his heir.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Care to give some reference to the text? I'm not questioning you here, I would like to know where to find it so I can :read: it.

There are several instances were Tyrion thinks of Tysha as his present wife, with a clear distinction from ex-wife. One is when Tywin approaches him with the Sansa marriage.

Also, annullment isn't mentioned once regarding Tysha.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

nice!

*gasp* Kinslayers are cursed in the eyes of gods and men! To kill your Lord Husband... And political marriages are cool, Cat & Ned worked out. And to all the kill every Lannister person out there, genocide is wrong

It certainly is wrong to kill all the Lannisters . . . when there's so many Freys left to kill.

The very religious Lancel walked away from an unconsummated marriage:

“If I do [pray with you], will you eat a bowl of porridge?” When his coz did not answer, Jaime sighed. “You should be sleeping with your wife, not with the Maid. You need a son with Darry blood if you want to keep this castle.”

“A pile of cold stones. I never asked for it. I never wanted it. I only wanted...” Lancel shuddered. “Seven save me, but I wanted to be you.”

Jaime had to laugh. “Better me than Blessed Baelor. Darry needs a lion, coz. So does your little Frey. She gets moist between the legs every time someone mentions Hardstone. If she hasn’t bedded him yet, she will soon.”

“If she loves him, I wish them joy of one another.”

“A lion shouldn’t have horns. You took the girl to wife.”

“I said some words and gave her a red cloak, but only to please Father. Marriage requires consummation. King Baelor was made to wed his sister Daena, but they never lived as man and wife, and he put her aside as soon as he was crowned.”

Sooooo, it doesn't appear to be all that hard to set aside a marriage. What are vows when words are wind, after all.

[LadyoftheNorth72]

Since the HS is the only one who can annul the marriage, IMO we should probably be looking at him for clues as to which way this might go. He certainly has no reason to love Lannisters; they did not help put him in his position and he is about to try one of them for various and major crimes. The accusation of regicide could be an issue, but since the primary (still living) person to accuse Sansa of involvement in Joff's death is the very person he is about to try for all these other crimes, I doubt Cersei's opinion on the matter are going to count for much with him. Also, the primary witness regarding Sansa's involvement - Shae - is not around to testify anymore.

Further, it is in both LF and the Tyrells' best interest to get these charges against Sansa dropped, as she (thanks to LF's big mouth) knows about THEIR involvement with the murder. I have no doubt that LF has some plan in mind with regard to achieving Sansa's being declared innocent. It also seems likely that this particular HS would be inclined to see Sansa as another victim of Lannister scheming and give the girl a break, especially if the motivation for him to do so is sweetened somehow.

LF seems not the least bit concerned about dealing with the issues of both Sansa's marriage or the suspicion of regicide, so I have to assume that there has been some plan in place (probably since before Joff even drew his last breath) to get her out of both situations.

[Raksha the Demon]

But I think LF's plan for freeing Sansa of her cumbersome marriage to Tyrion involved Tyrion's death, and the Imp has not exactly cooperated by getting himself executed or killed...A live, free and healthy Tyrion running around with various Dragon claimants of the Iron Throne might throw a wrench into LF's plans.

[FanTasy]

There are several instances were Tyrion thinks of Tysha as his present wife, with a clear distinction from ex-wife. One is when Tywin approaches him with the Sansa marriage.

Also, annullment isn't mentioned once regarding Tysha.

I suppose there never was need for an annullment for the 'marriage' with Tysha because it took place without consent of the father. Tyrion was thirteen. And as Tyrion tells Bronn in AGOT the procedure before the (drunk) septon was based on lies and fifty pieces of silver.

^{edited because of fuzzy English}

[Summerqueen]

Is the marriage legal? Sansa was coerced without her family's permission to marry without a writ from the king, yes? It doesn't matter that everyone thinks Bran and Rickon are dead and Jon doesn't count. If a sympathetic ruler were to discover the truth of Bran or Rickon, or if that ruler recognized the legitimization of Jon for some reason, couldn't that ruler sidestep the idea of annulment by naming it illegal?

Grounds for annulment: not consummated, for sure. Previous marriage not annulled for a non-Targ, maybe. Attainted, maybe. Married before false gods, maybe.

We do not know enough about the law and separation of state and religion.

[Hear Us Roar]

For all intents and purposes sansa and tyrion are both dead. They are far away in hiding and till one or both reveal themselves he is Hugo and she Elaine

[Hear Us Roar]

.

[FanTasy]

But I think LF's plan for freeing Sansa of her cumbersome marriage to Tyrion involved Tyrion's death, and the Imp has not exactly cooperated by getting himself executed or killed...A live, free and healthy Tyrion running around with various Dragon claimants of the Iron Throne might throw a wrench into LF's plans.

Exactly. Hmm ... what grounds for annullment he would bring before the High Septon. The non-consummation may be proven, but the consent of the father / brother was taken care of because Joffrey as king and 'father of the realm' gave Sansa away from House Stark to House Lannister. Littlefinger could claim that Joff was not the rightful king :cool4:

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Exactly. Hmm ... what grounds for annullment he would bring before the High Septon. The non-consummation may be proven, but the consent of the father / brother was taken care of because Joffrey as king and 'father of the realm' gave Sansa away from House Stark to House Lannister. Littlefinger could claim that Joff was not the rightful king :cool4:

- non consumation

- previous marriage, it might not have mattered to the "trained seal", but it will matter for the HS

- no consent from the family/lawful king (Sansa being a citizen of the Northern Kingdom, Joffrey being a bastard, take your pick)

Three valid reasons, you just need to bring them to the HS in the right way.

[1234567]

No one needs to be present for the High Septon to annul the marriage, but at least one of the wedded pair must request the annulment (SSM: 1)

Sansa doesn't even need to leave the Vale to get an annulment. Sansa's main problem is the regicide.