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From Pawn to Player? Rereading Sansa III


brashcandy

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Another theory of Sandor taking off his cloak:

Can be the same cloak after beating? If it is the same cloak, it can mean that he is also leaving her (not only in the real way of leaving in KL but also leaving her of all his pretensions).

I was reading the post of Marya and this idea just bump into my head.

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Another theory of Sandor taking of his cloark:

Can be the same cloark after beating? If it is the same cloark, it can mean that he is also leaving her (not only in the real way of leaving in KL but also leaving her of all his pretensions).

I was reading the post of Marya and this idea just bump into my head.

I was wondering about this as well. It would make sense that he got back that cloak after she was taken to the Tower of the Hand, so it very well could be. If it is, then the symbolism is even more potent.

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Well the North doesn´t care about Saltpan.

He has the loof of the First Men (so similar to Arya that people always believe that they are related, and Arya was the one with Jon that has more of the North than the other Stark children).

And if Fragile Bird´s prophecy realizes and Sandor makes a great action, it will be amazing!!

Fragile Bird :cheers: we are thinking in the same direction jajajajaja.

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In which way will be the symbolism more potent? Positive or negative? Or just we don´t know right now?

But I think as you: it can be stronger.

Maybe he is done (but the things that he does after means that he is not done with her), but her is starting on thinking about him.

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More potent in that if it's the same cloak it's the second time she's wrapped that particular cloth around herself, bringing the cloak exchange in a full circle almost. It would strengthen the idea that she is meant to have Sandor's cloak of protection - no one else. This cloak would have been one that saw her through stressful, shameful experiences, and now one that is there to make her feel comforted when the battle is over. This may be why she keeps it, because she associates it with this sense of protection and refuge, from the very first time she clutched it to her after the beating.

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Bgona, do you mean he has left her , he has given up on her and no longer expects anything from her, not even her looking at his face or accepting him as a protector?

Do you mean he's chosen to set her free from himself? He's leaving her in a cage, as she's a prisoner, but perhaps he has chosen to let her be, when no other man has ever let her be the owner of her own life?

When he leaves, it is Sansa herself that takes the decision to leave the bed and pick up the discarded cloak he has left on the floor. The cloth is torn because he didn't take it off, he wrenched it from his body. This gives an idea of his state of mind. Maybe he wrenched more than a cloak from his body, he wrenched his only hope and the only thing he had left. (Did he also tear off his own heart?).

After he's left she has time on her own, to think, and then she stands up and takes the cloak from the floor, the cloak that he discarded and this time, when he's not being forceful,when he's renounced his forceful violent ways towards her, she chooses to accept his cloak, as if she has, in a way accepted his ambiguous offer. Thus she seems to accept, either his protection (I could keep you safe ...) or the man himself.

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I remember in AFfC, Littlefinger's advice to Sansa regarding marriages was that young girls were always happiest with older men, "Innocence and experience make for a perfect marriage."

This could be foreshadowing in terms of Sansa's relationship to Sandor.

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Not much for me to say, you all have said it, as for why Sandor went to her room well it was a bit more than wanting her to go with him, I think Sandor basically said it when he leaves no one will stop him while he wears the cape and he has his sword unless that guard is on fire.

Sandor in Sansa's room because that is the only place he feels safe, now that could be because Sansa's a high born but I think it's more of for what ever reason a 12 year old some how imparted a feeling of caring into him he may interpret it as he is loving her but she so far is a bit young and it hasn't reach that point for her yet, also if he was going to kill Sansa it would have been a personal kill namely he would have strangled her not slit her throat.

As far as the cloak the symbolism isn't that she wrapped it around her she was cold after all, I saw the symbolism of her huddled under it as her subconsciously wanting him as her lover/ protector, yet as soon as the bells rang she tossed the cloak to the floor if it really means the former she would have placed it on the bed or held it I would think.

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When he leaves, it is Sansa herself that takes the decision to leave the bed and pick up the discarded cloak he has left on the floor.

I'm not sure what this could symbolize, but it could be the idea of her going from a higher position to accepting a lower one. Maybe foreshadowing?

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I'm not sure what this could symbolize, but it could be the idea of her going from a higher position to accepting a lower one. Maybe foreshadowing?

Well he could take the Stark name and forsake his house if they marry I think.

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Finally I have done with my reread of the chapter, after the wonderful analysis of Brashcandy few things can be say but anyway I have here someones.

- Ser Mandon is mentioned, he is missing. But why he tried to kill Tyrion? Maybe at a command of Cersei? Maybe Varys? Maybe that it is the reason why Cersei doesn´t mind the lose of Tyrion.

- The GC running away. That can reflects that Cersei is hiring the wrong men, men that are able to kill their officers when the battle turns to be rough.

- Where is Ser Ilyn?

- Cersei doesn´t leaving Joffrey to fight with his men shows a repressive aspect. This is a contrast with Cat attitude towards Robb. Showing that Cersei´s love is soffocating while Cat´s love lets her children have their own mistakes.

- Sansa realizing that the people inside Maegor´s Tower can "smell the fear". Normally it is the animals who are able to smell fear and then to react to them. People when are really scare get easier to animal instinct, and inside Maegor´s Tower while a battle is in the outside sure people were frighten. Maybe to this Sansa is able to empathize easilier with them.

- People staying inside the Tower been able to laugh of a joke of Moon Boy (even nervous laugh) leaves me astonish. I will be so scare that nothing will be able to calm down, and less to be inside of a room been not able to leave, I will be there almost mad.

- And what was thinking Cersei to invite people to a meal while people outside are fighting and more on when the citizen were starbing? They are different ways to comfort familiars. Its shows again a Cersei mistake, and a demostration of selfish, and even a demostration how she is tourning into Robert.

- Sansa couldn´t hate Ser Lancel and keeping remembering the "nice things" that Joffrey tells her. Normally, it is easier to believe the bad things that people tell you. So she believes that she is "weak, soft and stupid", showing that she needs to grow up and get stronger to realize that been merciful it is really harder than been a villain.

- Sandor going to Sansa´s bedroom is more dangerous than escape from where he was with Tyrion. So this action really shows that he worries about her (more that he is able to tell).

- And what we can say about been he at Sansa bed? He is tired due to the battle, drunk, and practical as he is, he got asleep. I love that!

- The closing of eyes of Sansa it was just getting prepare to be kiss (as Brashcandy says in her ananlysis). Sansa has been able to look at him this time, and again what frighten her most were his eyes.

- Sansa song: I have realize that it is not only a redeem religious song (very important in Sandor´s arc), but also a song that her mother taught her in her childhood. It is not a song learned from a bard.

- I must say that I love that Brashcandy open my eyes: Sansa touches burned side of Sandor´s face (it was the side with blood!!). That even means much more than the song, not only for the touching (something not asked to do it, and that shows a lot of intimacy) but being in the burned side means that she accepts him with all his ugliness (not only physical).

- Dontos saying that he wants to return to be a knight after the fight (when before he told that he was happy of not being cause that way he didn´t have to fight) demostrate that he is really a coward.

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which chapter?

I'm in SOS at the moment chapt. 37, where Jamie and Brienne learns of Sansa's marriage and Jamie understands just how devious Roose is.

IIRC, the last Sansa chapter of AFFC. But I am not sure. I only have read once.

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IIRC, the last Sansa chapter of AFFC. But I am not sure. I only have read once.

Is Grail King talking about the chapter where she reveals she's hidden the cloak? If so, I think that may be in her first chapter of ASOS.

As for Dontos, yeah, he's all about the glamour of knighthood, and lacks any real courage or commitment.

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I think this scene highlights a lot of what we've been talking about concerning the lack of access the reader has to Sansa's thoughts and feelings sometimes. Just what is she thinking after the Hound leaves, and when she sits on the floor huddled beneath the cloak? Why isn't she reflecting on what happened or questioning if he'll return? It's like she's gone into a very internal, private world, and then later we learn that what comes out is a memory that never happened. It's intriguing to say the least. Is it that Sansa cannot express what she is feeling, so we're left with a kind of void, or is it that GRRM is deliberating keeping the reader out of her head for whatever reason?

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Is Grail King talking about the chapter where she reveals she's hidden the cloak? If so, I think that may be in her first chapter of ASOS.

As for Dontos, yeah, he's all about the glamour of knighthood, and lacks any real courage or commitment.

Yes

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