Heresy 7

[Black Crow]

Jon might be getting an others related "power-up"

Oh I think so... and there have been hints of this from way back. Bran's dream where he saw Jon getting cold still seems to have been in real time rather than a prophecy but what tends to get missed in discussion of the dream is that he also sees a weirwood tree with "his brother's face" and from from the context its pretty clear that the brother in question is Jon rather than Robb far less Rickon.

[jon rr stark]

Does not Leaf say, in reference to M. Hands, Cold, that he was killed by the others long ago? Nights King was deposed by Stark/Wilding alliance.

Yes but he still has reminents of his black clothing on him. These would not have lasted thousands of years. bloodraven still has some pieces left on him as well but he is not moving about in the weather. bloodraven cant have been there more than 90 years about time of D&E from this we can deduce he is anything from 10 to 50 years dead.

[jon rr stark]

Oh I think so... and there have been hints of this from way back. Bran's dream where he saw Jon getting cold still seems to have been in real time rather than a prophecy but what tends to get missed in discussion of the dream is that he also sees a weirwood tree with "his brother's face" and from from the context its pretty clear that the brother in question is Jon rather than Robb far less Rickon.

I was thinking 'hoping' this referred to him wraging into or awaking an ice dragon in someway. he is becoming part of the ice (song of ice). taking this further somewhere down the line he merges with a fire dragon to bring balance to magic and westeros (song of ice and fire) i know wild specelation here

[Bran Vras]

This brings up a thought that I've been wondering about. A while back I posited (elsewhere) that the Boltons might have started literally wearing the skins of their enemies as a means of trying (and failing) to become skinchangers. Upon further reflection, I think it's interesting to note that the Boltons were literally wearing the skins of dead humans---which sounds quite a bit like what it seems the Others are probably doing (skinchanging into the "skins" of dead men) when creating wights. Given that the Boltons were fighting the Starks, perhaps the Boltons weren't just trying to approximate skinchanging. Perhaps the ancient and terrible Kings of Winter could actually create wights of their own, and it's this skill the Boltons were trying, and failing, to copy.

Which of course would have interesting implications for our current crop of Starks, especially Jon, given his heavy association with ice (the Wall) and death (Ghost).

The boltons aren't trying and failing to do any sort of imitation. they're sending a message about skins. No skin is safe, probably. or possibly that they take men the way wargs take wolves.

For those who think that the story of the Night King was about wedding a dead woman, it's worthwhile to think about Ramsay's "amusements". I think there is something more to it than perversion and cruelty.

In the accounts we have from ACoK, Ramsay practiced his games with the first Reek. Ramsay wore his finest clothes: velvet doublet, sable cloak (like a king, or a groom for a chase in the woods!). Reek and possibly Ramsay practiced necrophilia on their poor victim. And Ramsay, still in the guise of Reek, tells Theon

I was in service to the Bastard o’ the Dreadfort till the Starks give him an arrow in the back for a wedding gift.

The wedding is thought by Theon to refer to the recent marriage of Ramsay with Lady Hornwood. But, in Ramsay's mind, I think it refers to a mock marriage part of the cruel game he played. Note that the woman was skinned and a dog inherited the name (reincarnation). The skins seem to be kept at the Dreadfort. (In the Roose Bolton thread, it has been suggested that the skins are like the faces kept by the Faceless Men.)

Finally, when Manderly and Theon give accounts of Ramsay's crimes, I realized they follow a significant scenario: the woman has half a day (in fact a night) to flee. At sunrise, horns are blown and the chase begins. I am not sure what to make of this. For me, it evokes the wife of the Night King chased by the Night's Watch (horns) at the end of the Long Night.

Finally, a children's game called Monsters and maidens is mentioned several times through ACoK and ASoS (Rickon, Bran and the Walders, play it, as do Selyse and Edric, as did Arya, as did Shae etc): a "monster" has to chase a "maiden". There aren't many more details about the game, but I suspect it is derived from the same myth that gave birth to Ramsay's "amusements".

[protar]

Don't know if it's been bought up before but does anyone think there could be a connection between Dawn and the Other's swords? At first I thought they were both described as being pale as milkglass, but upon looking up the description in the GOT prologue I've seen it's not so. Nonetheless they both seem relatively similar. Is it possible Dawn was a gift from the Others or reverse engineered from their swords by humans. Not really sure how the whole meteorite thing works with that, or how House Dayne fits in, but it was just a random musing I had.

[Lykos]

@protar

Someone mentioned it before, but I don´t think there is a direct connection. Dawn was wielded out of the metal of a meteorite and is opaque like milkglass (I´m rather reminded of ghost grass). The swords of the WW are like clear frozen water they have the colour of their surroundings and catch and break the light. I think the name Ice of the Stark´s ancestral sword has more importance.