Jump to content

Lesbian Sex Encounters in Books...and Renly/Loras


teemo

Recommended Posts

Thats true.

My Husband and were talking about the possible miscasting of Renly.

Whatever Renlys sexual preferrences were, he's portrayed in the series as more like the stereo-typical fashion diva, rather than the Knight he was.

I read Renly in the book as more of a nod to an Alexander the Great archetype, (as well as Loras).

Yes, I dislike the portrayal of Renly in the TV series, too...Renly is always described as a looking just as king Robert when the latter was still young and athletic, and Robert was supposed to be some sort of super-manly Hercules.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's interesting that lesbian encounters are so much easier for people than male homosexual scenes.

I realize that HBO pushed the envelope (what else did you expect?)

But I'd say there are a few reasons Martin just emplied it in the books, but wrote page upon page of lesbian sex.

More people like or are okay with lesbian scenes. Most straight men like Lesbian scenes. Many Lesbians like Lesbian scenes, and many straight women like lesbian scenes.

When it comes to male homosexuality? Most straight men do not like it, most straight women do not like it, and many gay people do not like it.

For some reason we're still just more interested a society when two women are having sexual encounters, than we are when it's two men.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, I'll say it: I don't think those two lesbian sex scenes had any real point, beyond simple sexual fantasy meant to appeal to male readers. I personally can't stand them. They're completely unrealistic, totally out-of-character for Dany and Cersei, and they add absolutely nothing to the story. Definitely two of ASoIaF's low points, in my opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

More people like or are okay with lesbian scenes. Most straight men like Lesbian scenes. Many Lesbians like Lesbian scenes, and many straight women like lesbian scenes.

When it comes to male homosexuality? Most straight men do not like it, most straight women do not like it, and many gay people do not like it.

Nah. No offense, but some of your claims here (the parts I bolded) are absolutely ridiculous.

I agree that portraying lesbian sex is considered more acceptable in our society than portraying male homosexuality, but that's mainly because straight men tend to like it and they're the target demographic of most sexual media. It's not because "everyone" likes it, that's an utterly absurd assumption.

I wouldn't even say that most straight guys like lesbian porn/erotica. A lot of them do, but there are also a lot of straight men who only like to watch or read about hetero sex. As for women, a lot of actual lesbians don't like lesbian sex scenes because of how unrealistic they usually are, and how they're clearly designed to appeal to men. I've also never met any straight women who liked watching or reading lesbian sex scenes, so I have no idea what you're talking about there. I'm sure there are a few straight women who enjoy it, just like there's a very small percentage of straight men who like male gay porn, but I strongly doubt there are "many" of them.

Also, where did you get the idea that many gay men don't like watching or reading gay sex scenes? I'd wager there are a lot more gay men who like gay erotica than lesbians who watch lesbian porn. I don't know why you think straight women don't like it either, haven't you ever heard of yaoi fangirls? Straight women are much more likely to want to see two men going at it than two women.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, I dislike the portrayal of Renly in the TV series, too...Renly is always described as a looking just as king Robert when the latter was still young and athletic, and Robert was supposed to be some sort of super-manly Hercules.

I think they made him more "obviously gay" on the tv show on purpose, because in the book it's not super obvious.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand why Cersei would be doing it out of power, but at that time Dany wasn't acting like a power crazed lunatic (if I recall correctly). Maybe a little, but to me it seems out of character for her to just start trying to screw her handmaid/friend out of a thirst for power.

Ok. I think the analysis of the Cersei/Taena scene is more or less agreed on, but I do have a few points to make on Dany. First, I think referring to Irri as a friend is mildly inaccurate. Irri is a handmaiden and a servant and that is at the core of her offering to help Dany, but she is also very much a child (which Dany herself says on several occasions) and I suppose, though I don't encourage this line of thought, you have to question whether Dany is thus taking advantage of her power over a child. She exists as a character for two reasons: to serve Dany and to give the Dothraki cultural perspective on most issues. Other than that she has no purpose and this falls under the former category. She is a friend but only in the indifferent sense that she has no particular ill will toward Dany not unlike a small child.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thats true.

My Husband and were talking about the possible miscasting of Renly.

Whatever Renlys sexual preferrences were, he's portrayed in the series as more like the stereo-typical fashion diva, rather than the Knight he was.

I read Renly in the book as more of a nod to an Alexander the Great archetype, (as well as Loras).

In the books Renly was described as being elaborately dressed as well.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think they made him more "obviously gay" on the tv show on purpose, because in the book it's not super obvious.

Well, I´m straight, but if I were gay, I would be pissed; it´s as if they were implying that all gays are weak and effeminate.

In the books Renly was described as being elaborately dressed as well.

Yes, but he is an elaborately dressed assertive and confident athlete.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok. I think the analysis of the Cersei/Taena scene is more or less agreed on, but I do have a few points to make on Dany. First, I think referring to Irri as a friend is mildly inaccurate. Irri is a handmaiden and a servant and that is at the core of her offering to help Dany, but she is also very much a child (which Dany herself says on several occasions) and I suppose, though I don't encourage this line of thought, you have to question whether Dany is thus taking advantage of her power over a child. She exists as a character for two reasons: to serve Dany and to give the Dothraki cultural perspective on most issues. Other than that she has no purpose and this falls under the former category. She is a friend but only in the indifferent sense that she has no particular ill will toward Dany not unlike a small child.

Irri and Dany are similar in age-it is Missendi who is the child.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, with any sex scene I read, I can't help imagining GRRM slobbering all over himself while writing them. A bit of a turn-off really.

lol. Yeah. Cersei imagining ripping Taena open like a boar or someone lactating isn't really that "exciting."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I´m straight, but if I were gay, I would be pissed; it´s as if they were implying that all gays are weak and effeminate.

Yes, but he is an elaborately dressed assertive and confident athlete.

Every time I read a post about TV Renly, I weep for the human race. Loras is not weak; Renly is. Loras is fairly effeminate, but Renly's far from it, even in the show. In the books I found him to be much more stereotypically gay. I like that they showed a more humble, self-conscious side to him in the show. It made him more real and less of a caricature.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also the Tattered Prince mentioned having to a deserter who left because "the other men make me suck their cocks." Maybe some Ironborn got abandoned by Euron and joined with the Tattered Prince?

All of Euron's crewmen are mute from having their tongues ripped out, so I am certain he wasn't from his ship.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, with any sex scene I read, I can't help imagining GRRM slobbering all over himself while writing them. A bit of a turn-off really.

Hahaha me too. Completely takes me out of the story.

When it comes to sex scenes in literature, call me a prude, but I'm one of those who likes the "they started kissing and then.. *fade to black*" type of sex scenes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't mind television Renly...but he has an issue of not standing out. With how big of a character he is, most of the people that I have talked to that have ONLY read the show have NO CLUE who Renly is. Renly is supposed to be incredibly likable, expensively dressed (a little over-the-top), and memorable. In the show, he's none of that so far. But from the trailers from Season 2 I'm feeling a little bit of hope for him in the show.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suppose Jon's grotto scene with Ygritte could be considered romantic and erotic (I just have a hard time with that one, because I remember that neither has bathed in a while... sorry. That's just my hangup. I think this scene is genuinely meant to be romantic).

IIRC, they had both bathed in a cave pool. So many people overlook that part of the story.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't mind television Renly...but he has an issue of not standing out. With how big of a character he is, most of the people that I have talked to that have ONLY read the show have NO CLUE who Renly is. Renly is supposed to be incredibly likable, expensively dressed (a little over-the-top), and memorable. In the show, he's none of that so far. But from the trailers from Season 2 I'm feeling a little bit of hope for him in the show.

In his first scene in the book where he laughs at Joffrey I noticed that guy. But in the show we first see him in KL and he doeesn't come us charismatic/likeable/etc as he was supposed to be. Yeah I think there was a problem with Renly's portrayal in the show.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...