How do female readers view these books?

[Queen Cersei I]

It's more like saying rape and stealing, period, are on the same side of the scale.

Theft is a crime against property; rape is a crime against human beings.

It's more like saying rape and stealing, period, are on the same side of the scale. Like theft, using sex to manipulate someone is wrong, but exactly how wrong it is can vary from case to case. Sexually manipulating someone because you're frustrated and want to get laid isn't all that bad, I suppose that would be analogous to stealing a candy bar.

I suppose it depends on the situation, and how much you manipulate them.

Sexually manipulating someone to commit murder, torture, treason, and other heinous crimes is utterly despicable, and at that point I'd agree that it is just as serious a crime as rape.

When one is getting another person to perform murder, torture, or simillar violent acts then the crime has nothing to do with the sex (being used) everything to do with murder or torture. One who gets another to perform deeds of murder or torture for them is as guilty of murder and torture as the person who they got to commit the actual deeds. And I don't think I can recall myself or anyone else claiming that Cersei was not guilty (and morally culpable) of these things.

The crime here, though, is the conspiring to commit acts of murder and torture, not using sex for manipulation. They are seperate issues. Cersei is guilty for violating those she has harmed with her plans in which she used another to do her bidding (Margary, many citizens of Kings Landing, little Barra, etc.). However, she did not "violate" anyone by sleeping with them. The crime here is the murder or torture, not the using of sex to get ahead.

Convincing someone (by whatever means) to perform gratuitous torture and murder against innocent people is, I'd argue, worse than rape. Murder and torture are the only two crimes against persons that I would rate as worse than rape (though rape is a form of torture.) However, using sex has nothing to do with anything. Cersei never committed a sex crime. She committed heinous crimes against human beings that no one has ever denied, but she never raped anyone. (Unless your argument is that her "victims" could not help themselves, operate with basic common sense, or observe the laws of general morality after getting some of her vag jay jay. Which is ridiculous. All the men who acted in collusion with Cersei are as guilty as she is for the crimes they chose, through their own free will, to commit.

There's no evidence whatsoever for Theon being a rapist.

There is. In ACOK, Theon notes that he is very upset, and that he is taking out his anger/ frustration on Kyra. No detail is given, save for a vague, "he took out his frustaration on her." However, it is clearly noted that she exits his room covered by bite marks, scratch marks, bruises, and crying hysterically. There is damn good evidence that rape went on here.

There's no evidence whatsoever for Theon being a rapist. Kyra had been a willing lover to him before, and just because he was especially rough with her one night doesn't mean that he raped her. There's absolutely no reason to assume that what happened there was anything other than consentual.

That does not matter the smallest bit. Women are raped by their husbands, boyfriends, and ex boyfriends frequently. Just because a woman has slept with a man in the past that does not mean he can force himself upon her at any point and that this is any less of a rape.

just because he was especially rough with her one

So...are you arguing that if Kyra entered the room intending to have consensual sex with Theon but then he stared beating the shit out of her, scratching her, biting her, bruising her, and she (naturally) refused to go any further and wanted out, and he still forced himself upon her, then that was not "technically" rape? Since the two had done it before?

Theon was more than just "rough with her." He was downright violent and abusive.

There's absolutely no reason to assume that what happened there was anything other than consentual.

Well, except for Kyra's hysterical tears. And her running away from Theon in hysterics. And the cuts, bruises, and scratches that cover her body.

[Queen Cersei I]

Wait a minute, Cersei has been raping Jamie since they like 7 or something. She even molested Tyrion according to Oberyn Martell. She's a monster and probably Aerys Targaryen daughter. (though I do agree with you that Cersei did not want Brann pushed out the window)

Cersei could indeed be categorized as "a monster." Her treatment of baby Tyrion was indeed appalling and abusive. And she never, ever, ever raped Jaime. Ever.

(i mean, seriously, she's been raping him since the age of seven?) :shocked: