The secret meaning of "Hodor"

[Quiet Isle]

"Theon Greyjoy had once commmented that Hodor did not know much, but no one could doubt that he knew his name. Old Nan had cackled like a hen when Bran told her that, and confessed that Hodor's real name was Walder. No one knew where 'Hoder' had come from, she said, but when he started saying it, they started calling him by it. It was the only word he had." AGOT, pg 242.

"'Hodor,' Bran agreed, wondering what it meant." AGOT pg. 582.

Why keep the meaning of the word "Hodor" secret through five books unless GRRM intends to make the reveal a central point in the conclusion of ASOIAF? If the meaning of "Hodor" does have an impact on the conclusion what could it be?

Most everyone predicts that GRRM will bring the story around to include a massive battle between the Others and the Nights Watch. Many believe that GRRM will make Dany's dragons (or other dragons e.g. below Winterfell) a major feature of the battle with the Others. We know that Dany was able to teach her dragons a few words of old High Valyrian such as "Dracarys" or "dragonfire". ASOS pg 115.

However, Dany has stuggled to to find a way to control her dragons. To this point of the story there are two theories being proffered on how to control dragons: 1. the Valyrian horn found by Euron Greyjoy, and 2. Warging.

I think their is a third possibility, the magic word "Hodor". Hodor aka Walder is in the North beyond the wall with Bran and the COTF. Which places "Hodor" in the right place to make a contribution to the outocme with the battle against the Others when the meaning of the word "Hodor" is revealed. It's hinted at that Hodor is part giant therfore I beleibe it's more likely that the meaning of "Hodor" will have more to do with the language of the COTF rather than High Valyrian.

On the way to the Wall Tyrion Lannister is reading a very old and rare book borrowed from Winterfell about dragons, admitting to Jon Snow that he was fascinated with dragons as a child. AGOT pgs. 121-124.

Given the events of ADWD it's likely that Tyrion will acompany Dany back to Westeros, if Dany's return leads to the Wall then it is likely that Tyrion, who does not beleive that the Others exist, will be in a position to make a contribution to the battle with the Others. Keep in mind that Tyrion Lannister and Jon Snow parted as friends when Tyrion left the Wall (AGOT pg. 213) and I believe that GRRM will bring these friends back together.

If "Hodor" is a magic word for controlling dragons there are then 4 possible methods of learning the meaning of the word "Hodor" in keeping with the story so far; the meaning is revealed by: 1) the COTF; 2) Tyrion Lannister's study of dragons; 3) Bran or another character calling "Hodor" by name in the presence of the dragons; or 4) Walder the big "Hodor" himself tells us what it means.

Thoughts, comments?

I did some postings on this on another thread. If you look up HODOR AND BALDER in the Norse Myths, they are brothers. BALDER = WALDER gets killed when LOKI the trickster tricks blind Hodor into shooting an arrow which hits Balder. What if WALDER is BALDER and he's calling for his brother, or invoking him, with his constant hodoring? Read the post below for more info. Also, note that they competed for the hand of NANNA. OLD NAN. what if Walder was really MARRIED to old Nan - she grew old, as a mortal, he remained young as a GIANT. and a YOUNG GIANT STILL.

Höðr (often anglicized as Hod, Hoder, or Hodur^[1]) is the brother of Baldr in Norse mythology. Tricked and guided by Loki, he shot themistletoe arrow which was to slay the otherwise invulnerable Baldr.

According to the Prose Edda and the Poetic Edda, the goddess Frigg made everything in existence swear never to harm Baldr, except for the mistletoe which she found too young to demand an oath from. The gods amused themselves by trying weapons on Baldr and seeing them fail to do any harm. Loki, upon finding out about Baldr's one weakness, made a missile from mistletoe, and helped Höðr shoot it at Baldr. After this, Odin and the giantess Rindr gave birth to Váli, who grew to adulthood within a day and slew Höðr.

The Danish historian Saxo Grammaticus recorded an alternative version of this myth in his Gesta Danorum. In this version, the mortal hero Høtherus and the demi-god Balderus compete for the hand of Nanna. Ultimately, Høtherus slays Balderus.

[Pope Killdragon]

I've heard tell of it being a dragontaming word? No idea.

[Quiet Isle]

The Norse myth of Hodor and Baldyr and Nan seems right on point. hodor in the books has a real name of Walder, which is a lot like Baldyr who married a woman named nannan (old nan?) Loki tricks Hodor while shooting a bow and it kills Baldyr. Does Hodor have a brother he's calling?

[Daemul]

Hodor is the most useless character in the book, he single handedly kills Bran's chapters for me, I am barely able to read them as it is, but Hodor and his utterly unnecessary constant bellowing of his name is a deal breaker. It better have had a purpose behind it like the OP is suggesting, because otherwise I would not be amused.

[Aegon IV]

Now all he needs is an apocalypse cloak and a wheelbarrow. And maybe a pirate ship.

:)

A holocaust cloak, you mean? :cool4:

Hodor is the most useless character in the book, he single handedly kills Bran's chapters for me, I am barely able to read them as it is, but Hodor and his utterly unnecessary constant bellowing of his name is a deal breaker. It better have had a purpose behind it like the OP is suggesting, because otherwise I would not be amused.

He doesn't bother me in the slightest. The thing that ruins Bran's chapters, at least most in the last few books, is the sheer nothingness that occurs in the them. I think that will be changing in WoW.

[chris_cam84]

i always thought it might mean something in the giants language. Hopefully he will meet wun wun in winds of winter

[Quiet Isle]

The Norse Myth of Hodor and Baldr and Nanna are very interesting. Hodor and Baldr were brothers. BTW, Hodor's real name in ASOIAF is Walder, very similar to Baldr. Baldr married Nanna (old nan?) in the norse myth. Hodor is tricked by Loki, the trickster, and ends up shooting an arrow which kills Baldr. is he calling his brother's name?

When Loki, the mischief-maker, heard of this, he made a magical spear from this plant (in some later versions, an arrow). He hurried to the place where the gods were indulging in their new pastime of hurling objects at Baldr, which would bounce off without harming him. Loki gave the spear to Baldr's brother, the blind god Höðr, who then inadvertently killed his brother with it (other versions suggest that Loki guided the arrow himself).

But the interpretation of Baldr as "the brave god" may be secondary. Baltic language has a word meaning "the white, the good"

In the POETIC EDDA, Yet looking far into the future the Völva sees a brighter vision of a new world, when both Höðr and Baldr will come back. A Dream of Spring?

[LordReaper]

Our fragile mortal minds would be utterly consumed by madness should Hodor ever reveal us the true meaning of this eldricht paragon of power.

In his infinite wisdom and boundless generosity, the Great One has thus far spared us this most gruesome of fates.

May His will not falter.

Seriously...Hodor is a poor simpelton. Sometimes things are what they seem.

Regarding warging dragons, i don't think it can be ruled out as impossible. A normal skinchanger - no. But a greenseer..who the hell really knows what those guys can do? The children once sunk an entire land beneath the sea with this same power.

Ragnarok, i think theNorse god you refer to was Hodir.

[Quiet Isle]

Our fragile mortal minds would be utterly consumed by madness should Hodor ever reveal us the true meaning of this eldricht paragon of power.

In his infinite wisdom and boundless generosity, the Great One has thus far spared us this most gruesome of fates.

May His will not falter.

Seriously...Hodor is a poor simpelton. Sometimes things are what they seem.

Regarding warging dragons, i don't think it can be ruled out as impossible. A normal skinchanger - no. But a greenseer..who the hell really knows what those guys can do? The children once sunk an entire land beneath the sea with this same power.

Ragnarok, i think theNorse god you refer to was Hodir.

Actually, it was spelled several different ways. including Hodor.

[LordReaper]

Actually, it was spelled several different ways. including Hodor.

Like Odin/Wotan or Tyr/Tywaz you mean?

[Lion of Judah]

Why can't Bran just warg with him and find out what the heck it means?

[Where Boars Glow]

Maybe Hodor wasn't simple minded and was the son of Duncan the Tall. Then some Ahole Warged him and it shattered his mind. What was Bloodraven up to around that time?

[Lion of Judah]

Maybe Hodor is AA!

[astonedtargaryen]

I'm not sure Hodor will have such a profound part to play in the end of things, but I do think he will contribute in some way. Perhaps saving Bran's life, or some other kind of self sacrifice.

[willy york]

hodor is the stallion who will mount the world. it is known.

[Pod The Impaler]

hodor is the hodor who will hodor the hodor. it is hodor.

Fixed.

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

while do agree on grandson theory, D&E isn't thaat far back. Walder Frey makes an appearance as a snot-nosed brat, so 80 years ago tops

IT'd be pretty damn hilarious if Hodor got Frey blood. doesn't Old Nan mention his name is Walder at some point?

And Dunk was an adult to Walder being about 4, making it impossible for him to be Hodor's father. Old Nan would have remembered that.

[Little Bird of Varys]

Hodor is the name of the Great Other. It is known.

[Gray Ghost]

In the Theon chapters in which he is being held captive by Ramsey, he mentions something along the lines of, "you have to know your name"... And earlier on in the series he comments that if Hodor knows anything, it's his name. So I'm not sure exactly what this might be leading to, but I have a feeling that it is indicating that there is more to Hodor than one would expect. GRRM seems like he has a lot of long term commitments in regards to character revelation.

[Aetta]

I have always thought he was saying someone else's name, not his own. There could be a loose tie to Norse mythology, but not sure where it goes.

Vali kills Hoder for killing Baldr...and Vali has a brother named named Vidar who refuses to speak (sorta like ASOIAF Hodor) until he gets his vengeance against Fenrir, the wolf, for killing Odin.

Oh boy.

Is Walder Vali, the child-man? Who is his Baldr?

Or is he Vidar? Will he kill Bran for Odin/Bloodraven?/CotF?

Getting twisted a bit now.