Jump to content

Recommended Posts

No one is arguing that Aegon knows he's fake, only that Varys and Illryio have passed him off as Aegon. Also, most people who argue he's a Blackfyre assert that he's Illryio and Serra's child, so of course he would not have started out life in the Golden Company in that case.

First off I'd like to apologize if my understanding of the topic and its history is poor.

Now, that would mean that Illyrio and Serra produced a child with Silver hair and purple eyes. Both of them are Blondes, and neither have purple eyes. Of course, genetics is tricky and they can have ancestors with those traits but how likely is that? I don't know much about Serra other than what I jus read. She's of Lysene origin, where blonde hair and blue eyes are common. On the other hand Illyrio is Bravossi I believe, and they don't have silver hair and purple eyes either? Furthermore, where is the connection between Blackfyre and the two? I'm so confused, haha! : (

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Connington's leadership and appearances with Aegon in Westeros are critical. Everyone knows that Jon Connington was one of Rheagar's best friends, former hand of the king to his father Aerys II. When Connington comes forward and says this is Aegon, Prince and King, Son of Rheagar, he looks the part as well, well people are going to believe it. He will role up some victories and promise justice and peace for the people. there you go.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First off I'd like to apologize if my understanding of the topic and its history is poor.

No worries.

Now, that would mean that Illyrio and Serra produced a child with Silver hair and purple eyes. Both of them are Blondes, and neither have purple eyes. Of course, genetics is tricky and they can have ancestors with those traits but how likely is that? I don't know much about Serra other than what I jus read. She's of Lysene origin, where blonde hair and blue eyes are common. On the other hand Illyrio is Bravossi I believe, and they don't have silver hair and purple eyes either? Furthermore, where is the connection between Blackfyre and the two? I'm so confused, haha! : (

Serra is described as having golden hair streaked with silver. Targaryens are said to have silvery-gold hair. Aegon's hair could easily have come from her.

Serra's eyes are indeed blue according to Tyrion, but it should be noted that Tyrion at first mistakes Aegon's eyes for blue as well. Also, among the possible Targaryen eye colors are lilac, which is a "light or moderate purple colour, sometimes with a bluish or reddish tinge", and indigo, which is a "a color ranging from a deep violet blue to a dark, grayish blue" (according to dictionary.com). Serra and/or Young Griff could easily have had one of these eye colors (which I think is likely, at least for Aegon, given that Connington describes his eyes as being lighter than Rhaegar's).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also think that people interpret "Mummer's dragon" as Aegon being the false dragon, but it can just as well mean that it's a possessive, i.e. Varys is the Mummer. The prophecies in Martin world are vague on purpose to leave it ambiguous like this.

Wow. This floored me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

I think he's the real deal. In the Connington chapters (where the reader is party to the character's inner thoughts) there is not a hint that this is a ruse. Connington is attempting to right the wrong done to his man-crush (to say the least) Rhaegar. In any case, I thought if Tyrion worked something out, that tended to be final. :-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think he's the real deal. In the Connington chapters (where the reader is party to the character's inner thoughts) there is not a hint that this is a ruse. Connington is attempting to right the wrong done to his man-crush (to say the least) Rhaegar. In any case, I thought if Tyrion worked something out, that tended to be final. :-)

Yes, but no one is arguing Connington knows he's fake. So his chapters don't really prove anything one way or another.

And Tyrion is shown to be skeptical of the baby switch story. When YG knocks over the cyvasse table, he says to himself, "He may very well be a Targaryen after all," indicating that he still isn't quite sure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think he's the real deal. In the Connington chapters (where the reader is party to the character's inner thoughts) there is not a hint that this is a ruse. Connington is attempting to right the wrong done to his man-crush (to say the least) Rhaegar. In any case, I thought if Tyrion worked something out, that tended to be final. :-)

Yep, Connington is trying to right the wrong, andd in doing so he is blind to the fact that the way he's attempting to do this leads to wildly different resulty. But Connington didn't see Young Griff until he was five, So even Connington would have to believe Varys. And as we all know, Varys often only tells a fraction of the truth...

What do you mean when talking about Tyrion? Didn't get your point there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What do you mean when talking about Tyrion? Didn't get your point there.

I think mcbelfast refers to Tyrion working out that YG is Aegon. I think GRRM wants us readers to go further ( and thus make ourselves feel cleverer than Tyrion ), (we´re not, really) since we have more information. What I don´t get is, why people need Serra to be a Blackfyre descendant. I think Illyrio had a son with the love of his live, who looked Targaryen and Illyrio grasped the opportunity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah, yes. But as has been pointed out, even Tyrion is doubtful of the information the Halfmaester gave him.

About Young Griff being a Blackfyre: The reason for this assumption (that I share) is that the Golden Company declared for Aegon.

Let me clarify that statement. The Golden Company were founded by Bittersteel in order to seat a Blackfyre on the Iron Throne. They failed at doing so, but garnered a reputation as a mercenary company that always keeps their contracts. By the time of aDwD, the Golden Company are under contract with Myr, when they break said contract to join Young Griff's cause. Now Tyrion wonders why they would do that, and Illyrio tells him that some contracts are writ in blood, implying that the contract Myles Toyne (who used to be the right hand of Maelys the Monstrous before leading the Golden Company) and Illyrio sealed was such an agreement.

But the Golden Company fought the Targaryens for 150 years, so this contract writ in blood can't be for a Targaryen. Supporting a Blackfyre, though, would be such a case, seeing that the Golden Company was explicitly founded for that purpose.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think he's the real deal. In the Connington chapters (where the reader is party to the character's inner thoughts) there is not a hint that this is a ruse. Connington is attempting to right the wrong done to his man-crush (to say the least) Rhaegar. In any case, I thought if Tyrion worked something out, that tended to be final. :-)

He could be real, but the reality is, for any good ruse to work, the candidate himself has to believe he is who he is.

Jon C, sees what he wants to see, because he's desparate to right wrongs, so he's vulnerable to Varys, via probably Ashara who believes it as well, presenting him with a five year old, (at this point), that has been raised to believe he is Prince Aegon.

The true end tragedy and cruelty even, will be finding out he is not Rhaegar's son, even if he's a Blackfyre.

Here is irony of the story IMHO:

Aegon believes he is the great Rhaegars son, and will want that more than anything, but as with most of the characters in this story, he will lose that.

Jon, who wants more than anything to be Ned Starks son, will find out that he is actually Rhaegars son- and will be devastated, because now he has lost what was most important to him.

And Varys himself is most likely a Blackfyre Targaryen, which makes sense as to why he would plot against Rhaella and Rhaegar, (who according to Joreh are good, and would have presumably been good for the realm), further poisoning the relationship between Aerys, his wife and son.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think mcbelfast refers to Tyrion working out that YG is Aegon. I think GRRM wants us readers to go further ( and thus make ourselves feel cleverer than Tyrion ), (we´re not, really) since we have more information. What I don´t get is, why people need Serra to be a Blackfyre descendant. I think Illyrio had a son with the love of his live, who looked Targaryen and Illyrio grasped the opportunity.

It's not really about "needing" Aegon to be a Blackfyre. It's that we've learned so much about this rebellion that happened like 100 years ago and was apparently squashed. It only really makes sense to keep coming back to it over and over again if it will have some significance to the "modern" plot. And Aegon being a Blackfyre is the likeliest option there. There've been other thematic easter eggs (the dragon sign on the Quiet Isle) that hint at a Blackfyre development, and of course the Golden Company and the contract "writ in blood."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He might not be a Blackfyre pretender. In The Mystery Knight I think it's mentioned that Aerion Targaryen fathered a couple of children in Lys after his father sent him packing. A great grandbastard of Aerion Brightfire, anyone?

I thought this exact same thing after reading TMK. It seems pretty likely to me, although I hope not because Aerion might qualify as the greatest Targ a-hole of all time (he's in the top 5 definitely) and I really wouldn't want a descendent with his traits anywhere near Westeros.

But whether he's a "Blackfyre" or a "Brightflame", one thing is for sure in my mind-he's not the son of Rhaegar.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's quite possible Aegon is both.

Aerion was a lot like Viserys in the idea that a "dragon" should be too good to marry anyone but another dragon, (they might sleep with other women, but not marry them), and I think Aerions son was legit., because he was passed over for fears of madness.

If he was a bastard, he wouldn't be considered in the succession.

So, having said all that, it's quite possible the most suitable mate for Aerion, (that he'd deem worthy), would be another female dragon and descended or not from the wrong side of the blanket from a legal standpoint, from a blood standpoint, a female Blackfyre would be the most suitable in Aerions eyes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What exactly is this read regarding?? Is it more to do with him being the true born sone of Rhaegar or just a general thread about this new and exciting character?? Also what are the views on Aegon's Lineage??

It's a discussion on whether Aegon is really Rhaegars son, or a fake, highlighting the term "Mummers Dragon," which could mean he is a fake as in Mummer, or he is not, but Vary's,(who use to be a Mummer), Dragon.

If he is a fake, then what kind is he?

Some kid they plucked from a farm with the right look?

Illyros son?

Or a descendent from the Blackfyre Targaryens, (which Varys himself might be), the bastard line sired and seemingly favored by Aegon the Unworthy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What exactly is this read regarding?? Is it more to do with him being the true born sone of Rhaegar or just a general thread about this new and exciting character?? Also what are the views on Aegon's Lineage??

... Have you actually read the thread? :shocked:

The idea is that Aegon is not Rhaegar's son, but is in fact a Blackfyre or a descendant of Aerion Brightflame or both (good on Alia for pointing out that the two are not mutually exclusive).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

* connington is trustworthy

Connington doesn't know.

* why should varys lye to kevan seconds before he kills him?

He never said that the Aegon who was "here" was Rhaegar and Elia's Aegon.

* the dragon has to have 3 heads (dany, jon, aegon).

This isn't proven at all yet, but even if those three are it, Aegon is still a dragon even if he's a Blackfyre. Red dragon, black dragon, a dragon is a dragon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

connington is trustworthy

Connington wasn't involved in the plan until Aegon was around five or six.

why should varys lye to kevan seconds before he kills him?

Well, it's disputable if he's actually lying or not (notice that Varys never claims Aegon is Rhaegar's son). But even if he is, there are still a couple explanations:

1) Varys wants to keep the truth from his little birds.

2) Varys is following Littlefinger's advice by upholding the lie even when he has no reason not to.

the dragon has to have 3 heads (dany, jon, aegon).

George has said that the third head of the dragon need not be a Targaryen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...