A Content Peasant Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I can only think of about three in the series, but it's been a while since I read the whole thing in one go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King in the South Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Stannis attacking ManceTywin/Mace attacking StannisDany getting her dragonsAn Other letting himself get killed by SamNot sure if those above are necessarily good or bad. I'm definetely missing a few too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Content Peasant Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 By good or bad, I meant frustrating or awesome depending on one's viewpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Lannister Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Ramsay Bolton somehow manages to fight and slaughter an army of northmen, roughly five times the size of his own force... and loses only "twenty or thirty" men.Eh. The element of surprise can be great and everything, but those odds are dubious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaehaerys Sand Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I can't really think of anything that bad, other than Mance trusting Jon after the Fist of the First Men. This series doesn't really have that many plot holes, at least none as glaring as "Why didn't they just ride the eagles to Mordor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I can't really think of anything that bad, other than Mance trusting Jon after the Fist of the First Men. This series doesn't really have that many plot holes, at least none as glaring as "Why didn't they just ride the eagles to Mordor?"Because Sauron has spies in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a free shadow Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Not exactly "Deus ex mashina", but... maybe slightly. Jaqen gives Arya a coin and she is suddenly going not to find Jon at The Wall, but to the other end of the world :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkash Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Stannis attacking the wildlings was a good one.Mance trusting Jon after the Fist: awful one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Wex being in one tree of out a kazillion jillion at just the right moment also seems pretty far-fetched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Kraken Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Not exactly "Deus ex mashina", but... maybe slightly. Jaqen gives Arya a coin and she is suddenly going not to find Jon at The Wall, but to the other end of the world :dunno:I was going to say maybe Jaqen's appearance and the coin. But I'm a fan of where he took Arya's storyline.But so far no one has pulled the Sword of Gryffindor out of a Sorting Hat randomly delivered by a mortal wound healing phoenix, so I'm happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaehaerys Sand Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Because Sauron has spies in the air.There are nine nazgul and dozens if not hundreds of eagles. I think they'll be fine.Anyway, on topic, I think the Dragon horn is setting itself up to be one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a free shadow Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I was going to say maybe Jaqen's appearance and the coin. But I'm a fan of where he took Arya's storyline.But so far no one has pulled the Sword of Gryffindor out of a Sorting Hat randomly delivered by a mortal wound healing phoenix, so I'm happy.Someone had pulled a dragonglass knife out of a bundle burried randomly in the ground :P And slayed an Other.And if you like where the story goes, it does not make it not Deux ex Mashina. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Kraken Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Someone had pulled a dragonglass knife out of a bundle burried randomly in the ground :PTrue, true. But at least they didn't pull it out of hat, right? And anything that keeps Sam the Seducer alive I'll let slide :cool4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Kraken Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 And if you like where the story goes, it does not make it not Deux ex Mashina. :DOh, trust me, I know. I have a college degree in English Literature of all things. But this thread asked whether or not we thought the deus ex machina was good or bad. And I consider Arya's story awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noimporta Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Wikipedia on the subject:A deus ex machina (/ˈdeɪ.əs ɛks ˈmɑːkiːnə/ or /ˈdiːəs ɛks ˈmækɨnə/ day-əs eks mah-kee-nə;[1] Latin: "god out of the machine"; plural: dei ex machina) is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object.For example:Stannis attacking ManceGiven what we learn of Stannis throughout the books, and how the last Davos chapter ended, the event is both in character for the participants and properly foreshadowed. The timing was convenient, for sure, but I don't think it's enough to qualify as a DEM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a free shadow Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Given what we learn of Stannis throughout the books, and how the last Davos chapter ended, the event is both in character for the participants and properly foreshadowed. The timing was convenient, for sure, but I don't think it's enough to qualify as a DEM.I think the same. It was reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkash Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Someone had pulled a dragonglass knife out of a bundle burried randomly in the ground Well, not a DEM, but a mystery that is still to be explained that is... maybe, for me, the most intriguing one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpottedCat Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Yes, the dragons (and Dany surviving the fire) is definitely a great one. It totally changed the situation to her advantage (created faithful Dothraki servants who worshipped her, gave her the power of the dragons, made her famous with people flocking to see her and made people rally to her cause). Stannis deciding to save the Wall was another (it broke up the wildling alliance, put Mance out of power and into their hands, also changed Jon's fate). Another was Coldhands saving Sam and Gilly. Sam showing Bran, Hodor and the Reeds how to cross the Wall. Jaqen H'ghar helping Arya in Harrenhal and giving her the coin. Yoren taking Arya away from King's Landing. Bad ones would be Sansa telling Cersei about Ned's plans. The Red Wedding. Thoros bringing Catelyn back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a free shadow Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Well, not a DEM, but a mystery that is still to be explained that is... maybe, for me, the most intriguing one...DEM. An object burried randomly and conviniently in wast lands brings down the greatest enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSpottedCat Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Wikipedia on the subject: For example: Given what we learn of Stannis throughout the books, and how the last Davos chapter ended, the event is both in character for the participants and properly foreshadowed. The timing was convenient, for sure, but I don't think it's enough to qualify as a DEM. Well, the phrase Deus ex Machina came from ancient Greek theatre, where a god would usually show up at the end of a play to solve the main problem of the play, or give a satisfying conclusion for the audience. Gods would appear to come from the heavens, so the actor playing the god would descend to the stage by a crane, thus Machina==> Machine in English, meaning the crane. Strictly speaking the phrase (its modern meaning, that is), means an unexpected plot device solving the problem, but I guess we can apply it loosely here. With Martin's style of writing, many things can be foreshadowed but sometimes you think the plot is leading you some place but it ends up completely different. Also, the phrase can be applied in real life, not just fiction. So, for example, if I am in great debt and a wealthy benefactor shows up out of nowhere and gives me money, I can say that he was my Deus ex Machina. So, applied in that sense, if we take it from the characters' point of view (which is how the book is written), Stannis attacking the wildlings would have appeared as a Deus ex Machina for Jon and the other Black Brothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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