Odds of Jaime and Brienne Ending Up Together

[Lyanna Stark]

I was thinking that Brienne thinks a lot about her singing. She thinks that she hasn't sung to her father, or to Renly, and it's something she feels as protective about as she feels about her virginity. So I think that while the odds of Jaime's and Brienne's hook up are rather low (I just can't picture them in a sex scene!), she might sing to him instead of giving her maidenhood to him. Something symbolic like that

That's a rather interesting thing actually, since songs and singing are brought up a lot in the parallel relationship with Sansa and Sandor. Does Jaime ever mention singing? I can't remember him ever doing that. I know he sings to her though, some sort of inappropriate song when they see corpses in a pool.

[Kittykatknits]

I was thinking that Brienne thinks a lot about her singing. She thinks that she hasn't sung to her father, or to Renly, and it's something she feels as protective about as she feels about her virginity. So I think that while the odds of Jaime's and Brienne's hook up are rather low (I just can't picture them in a sex scene!), she might sing to him instead of giving her maidenhood to him. Something symbolic like that

He doesn't ever mention singing that I can recall. I can't picture them in a sex scene either. I still think the relationship is moving towards a platonic one rather than a romantic. But, I'm not much invested either way. If they want each other and it's well written, then it's fine by me. If, and it's a big if, they do hook up, I see it as more of a one-time, very short affair than anything else. A final good-bye before he goes off to choke his sister to death or something.

[maria underfoot]

He doesn't ever mention singing that I can recall. I can't picture them in a sex scene either. I still think the relationship is moving towards a platonic one rather than a romantic. But, I'm not much invested either way. If they want each other and it's well written, then it's fine by me. If, and it's a big if, they do hook up, I see it as more of a one-time, very short affair than anything else. A final good-bye before he goes off to choke his sister to death or something.

Yeah, Jaime doesn't mention singing, but I think that Brienne sees it as something really intimate. She would have liked to have sung to Renly, as an expression of love and devotion. As Jaime is slowly replacing Renly in her heart, and as I agree with you and see their relationship as a platonic one, I can imagine her singing to him as a sort of consummation of her love and esteem. I can't imagine her giving up her maidenhood to Jaime, because of her vows and his, but I can see her giving him a song instead. (as a final good bye as you say)

Terribly symbolic IMO, but not un-Martinlike.

[Kittykatknits]

Yeah, Jaime doesn't mention singing, but I think that Brienne sees it as something really intimate. She would have liked to have sung to Renly, as an expression of love and devotion. As Jaime is slowly replacing Renly in her heart, and as I agree with you and see their relationship as a platonic one, I can imagine her singing to him as a sort of consummation of her love and esteem. I can't imagine her giving up her maidenhood to Jaime, because of her vows and his, but I can see her giving him a song instead. (as a final good bye as you say)

Terribly symbolic IMO, but not un-Martinlike.

I could see it too, very Martinlike. Would remind me of Sandor and Sansa during the BBW.

I didn't realize I was quoting you, I was answering Lyanna Stark's quesion on whether Jaime ever talks about singing. :)

I wonder how Jaime would react if she sang to him?

[maria underfoot]

I wonder how Jaime would react if she sang to him?

That's a good question. I think that at first he'll be inclined to make fun of her ("a dozen quips came to his mind, each crueler than the next") but then he'll be rather... moved, I guess? Dunno, I'm waiting for Martin to surprise us. The Jaime/Brienne/unCat situation is one of the story arcs I'm most looking forward to in TWOW. :)

[Brienne Tarly]

That's a rather interesting thing actually, since songs and singing are brought up a lot in the parallel relationship with Sansa and Sandor. Does Jaime ever mention singing? I can't remember him ever doing that. I know he sings to her though, some sort of inappropriate song when they see corpses in a pool.

Har! Good catch! IIRC, that happens shortly before they lose Cleos, start fighting, and get caught. And the song is - TA-DA:

About Florian the Fool. Our Sansa/Dontos leitmotif.

I have fantasized before about Brienne/Jaime turning into a gender-reversed version of Florian and Jonquil, but I never remembered that bit about Jaime actually singing the song before you brought it up. I love it :D

[fiu*]

Excuse my English. I hope you’ll understood me.

I’m quite sure they both are alive and they’ll develop stable romantic relationship.

I think that Brienne will save Sansa by changing Jaime on more delicate man. I’m sure that they will sleep with each other and I hope they will have sort happy relationship. I got afraid that after first time Brienne will panic. Opposite to case Sam and Jon where Gilly and Ygritte has no problem with that their partners breaks an oath. I hope that she will be have thoughts like that Jaime after killing a mad king shouldn’t stay in Kingsguard.

I think they can create great commitment relationship. Brienne will be great opposite to Cersei because she really care about Jaime not what he can do for her. But also predict that they relationship won’t take long. I think that Brienne is going to die during or sort time after labor (maybe triplets). Jaime will kill Cersei short time after that (when she won’t expect this) after she offend Brienne calling Jaime a fool something like that.BTW I think that Jaime in his life has sexual relationships with 3 women. 1Cercie lust 2 Brienne love 3. Sansa more duty than love (doom).

Also he wears different colors with different woman. Cercie(red and gold Lannisters’s colors) Brienne (KG white) Sansa (black and red Targaryen’s) Yes TARGARYEN. I’m sure that Tywin’s mother wasn’t faithful wife.

I like idea that Jaime is descendant of Aegona V and Brienne descendant of Dunk.

[Sijjvra]

I'm fairly sure that Brienne is going to die trying to save Jaime from UnCat somehow - leaving him to redeem himself further. I do believe they have feelings for each other, but it's not the same sort of infatuation that they've had for their previous loves - Renly/Cersei. This is a bit more complex and more subtle, and I HIGHLY doubt it's going to end in some romantic fling. That would almost cheapen the whole dynamic between the two of them. I could be wrong, after all, but my theory is Brienne is going to sacrifice herself to keep Jaime safe.

[rainsofcastamere]

oh gosh, i've often thought about these two getting together, especially after jamie's loss of hand and subsequent change in personality...and he does admire her greatly....i'd love to think that this could happen, but i agree with the above poster that brienne is going to sacrifice herself for jamie...it's how she rolls!

[Lana]

I love the idea of Jaime and Brienne, but for story purposes, I don't want it to escalate beyond unsaid feelings. I can't imagine them having a heartfelt confession or ripping each other's clothes off - awkward!

Plus I'm convinced that Jaime will be Cersei's valonquar and then shortly off himself. They came into the world together and will leave it together.

[Currawong]

No matter how much Jaime may change, he is not good enough for Brianne. He threw a child off a tower and crippled that child for life ... while he was 'sexing up' his sister. And why on earth so many folks want brave Brianne to be either stuck as a wife or stuck with a bastard is beyond me. What -- that Jaime's seed would be so terribly great that she would love being a mother? Does anybody see Brianne as the mother type? Because I don't. I like Brianne the very way she is and I do not view her as incomplete because she is not paired up with a man.

This sort of thinking, that so and so 'is not good enough' for someone, always annoys/ saddens me. Surely the only person whose opinion matters about whether a man is 'good enough' for her is Brienne. After all, how many men have thought that Brienne was 'good enough' for them (apart from Ser Hyle, who is more interested in her property, not her as a person)? Even Renly was amused by her, behind her back, as Loras tells Jaime. Brienne has been laughed at and scorned by most men, who see her as freakish and not a proper woman at all, and view her warrior prowess as unnatural. Even Catelyn pitied her appearance! For all that he hides it under typical sarcasm at time, Jaime at least has grown gradually to respect as a person, a fighter and even as a woman. That is what Brienne craves - respect as a person in her own right, respect for her choices, what she is and what she believes in. Jaime does not as yet articulate those feelings, but he shows it, because Jaime Lannister would never, ever give a sword of Valeryan steel to someone he did not respect. And Brienne understands this, which is why this gesture means so much to her, as well as being given an almost-impossible knightly 'quest'.

Does Brienne want to be a wife and mother? I got the impression from her POV chapters in AFFC that she was rather torn by this: she reflects at one point that if her first betrothed hadn't died young, she would have been married and had several children by then. She doesn't express any anti-motherhood statements, but rather she seems to me to exemplify a woman who has made her choice, and wants to continue doing this. She wants to be the one to decide who she will marry, and doesn't want to be simply bartered off as a piece of property for the sake of lands and titles. Unlike some of the other women we see or hear about in ASOIAF, Brienne is physically strong enough to get her way so far. Yet underneath her tough exterior, she is a deeply romantic and idealistic girl (she is still quite young). She knows all the songs of the knights, where they are always handsome and it is always summer: it seems clear that one part of her deep inside longs for just such a knight to come along as her special knight, but of course, Life isn't like that and as she has come to realise, she is certainly not the beautiful young maiden of the songs and stories. Yet she still clings to her sense of honour and her ideals, and probably deep down still hopes that one day she will find a man who will love and respect her for what she is. If she ever found that person, who wanted her for herself and was free to marry her, I do not see Brienne necessarily being determined to remain a maiden knight. But it would be her choice.

It would be deeply ironic, and oddly fitting, if she discovers that her shining knight is the handsome Ser Jaime Lannister, whose golden appearance is at odds with a very tarnished reputation, and is a man with some very dark places inside. Brienne is the only one to know the truth behind the 'Kingslayer' tag, and she's come to see that Jaime is not just a totally black character, but a complex man who hides behind the golden facade. Each of them in their own way has put up barriers around 'who' they are, and for me and many of the people who like the idea of them together (unlikely or not), it is that gradual discovery of the true individuals beneath those barriers, and the slow acceptance and respect for each other as people, that is so fascinating. I'm sure in the world of ASOIAF there would be those who saw an ugly maid like Brienne as not good enough for Jaime Lannister (imagine Tywin's opinion!!) and equally there would be those who would see Jaime as not being good enough for her.

But one thing is certain about both characters: they don't let others' opinions of them rule their lives. So if they ever get the chance to be together, and decide that it is what they want, then it wouldn't matter a damn what anyone else thought about who was good enough for whom!

[Kittykatknits]

This sort of thinking, that so and so 'is not good enough' for someone, always annoys/ saddens me. Surely the only person whose opinion matters about whether a man is 'good enough' for her is Brienne. After all, how many men have thought that Brienne was 'good enough' for them (apart from Ser Hyle, who is more interested in her property, not her as a person)? Even Renly was amused by her, behind her back, as Loras tells Jaime. Brienne has been laughed at and scorned by most men, who see her as freakish and not a proper woman at all, and view her warrior prowess as unnatural.

First, this is a great post. I completely agree with everything you said. This is an important point that you bring up, as stating whether or not someone is "good enough" for Brienne, or any other woman, is to actually negate female desire. A woman's desires have just as much value as a man.

Does Brienne want to be a wife and mother? I got the impression from her POV chapters in AFFC that she was rather torn by this: she reflects at one point that if her first betrothed hadn't died young, she would have been married and had several children by then. She doesn't express any anti-motherhood statements, but rather she seems to me to exemplify a woman who has made her choice, and wants to continue doing this. She wants to be the one to decide who she will marry, and doesn't want to be simply bartered off as a piece of property for the sake of lands and titles. Unlike some of the other women we see or hear about in ASOIAF, Brienne is physically strong enough to get her way so far. Yet underneath her tough exterior, she is a deeply romantic and idealistic girl (she is still quite young). She knows all the songs of the knights, where they are always handsome and it is always summer: it seems clear that one part of her deep inside longs for just such a knight to come along as her special knight, but of course, Life isn't like that and as she has come to realise, she is certainly not the beautiful young maiden of the songs and stories. Yet she still clings to her sense of honour and her ideals, and probably deep down still hopes that one day she will find a man who will love and respect her for what she is. If she ever found that person, who wanted her for herself and was free to marry her, I do not see Brienne necessarily being determined to remain a maiden knight. But it would be her choice.

To me, Brienne has not made a choice to reject being a wife and motherhood. Rather, she is wanting the ability to make those choices, if and when she decides she wants to. As you say, she has the strength to be able to do so. But, within the patriarchal system that is Westeros, she also has a father who is willing to support that choice.

I highlighted another sentence that caught my eyes. Brienne's desire to decide who to marry is not something that is unique to Brienne. Just about every single female character expresses this desire or expresses anger at having her choice taken from her. Cersei and Lysa are great examples of being made to marry, and look what has happened to them. But, beyond Brienne, other POVs that have expressed similar feelings include Sansa, Arya, Dany, Arianne, and Asha. Arya says the life of Lady Wife is not for her, Sansa says that she does not want to marry again, and Asha ran away from a forced husband and has said that she wishes she could marry Qarl. At the Wall, we have Val resisting marriage choices and Alys who ran away to avoid a marriage, picking her own husband instead. It's a running theme in this series. I, for one, am very curious where it is going.

But one thing is certain about both characters: they don't let others' opinions of them rule their lives. So if they ever get the chance to be together, and decide that it is what they want, then it wouldn't matter a damn what anyone else thought about who was good enough for whom!

Yep.

[ashnbell]

Would love to see what it did to Cersei's already tenuous grip on her sanity if a raven turned up at Kings Landing with an invite to the wedding.

J + C = even more messed up C

[Silver Spearwife]

If they both survive this mess and their relationship does end up platonic, I'd like to think that he leaves the Kingsguard and she maybe ends up as his personal guard or something. Course, that's insanely hopeful for this series.

But one thing is certain about both characters: they don't let others' opinions of them rule their lives. So if they ever get the chance to be together, and decide that it is what they want, then it wouldn't matter a damn what anyone else thought about who was good enough for whom!

Totally. That's definitely something they've got in common.

[Jolene Brown]

Currawong wrote a brilliant intellectual exposition of the relationship, so I will restrain myself to whining that if Sam and Gilly and Jon and Ygritte get to have sex, I don't see why Brienne and Jaime shouldn't get to too. It's only fair.

[Artos Stark]

I don't really see Brienne and Jaime ending up together. I could however see Gendry and Brienne getting together. Gendry's son being the heir of Tarth

[LordDolorousEdd]

she is going to end up with tyrion!

[Sarahsue]

I interpret the dream differently. I think that Jaime will survive as long as Brienne stays with him, lending him the light of her sword.

Just wanted to comment on this from the previous page. I agree so much that Brienne is becoming the one bright spot in Jamie's life. And I think that if, as some have speculated, his children are killed and he loses Cersei and maybe even his brother, then Brienne will be the only thing keeping him alive. She's already told him once before that he had to live when he was ready to give up, I think it's going to be an ongoing feature of their future. So do I think they could be romantically involved, yes, I mean I don't see him fighting for life to be with someone that he doesn't care about. I also think Martin intends for there to be parallels between Brienne/Jamie and Cat/Ned. Ned and Cat weren't infatuated with each other when they met and yet they became the most stable couple to be featured in the series. And I think deep down, Jamie always wanted to be a bit like Ned, honourable, reliable and devoted. Brienne is his chance to be that person.

[RoamingRonin]

Not a chance in the seven hells that this would happen.

[Jolene Brown]

A few other things I noticed while skimming through the books, looking at some Brienne stuff. Cat actually tells Brienne, "I hope one day you'll sing for me," or something like that when they have that conversation about how there were always singers at Evenfall when Brienne was a girl and she learned all the songs by heart. Obviously that never happened, but I wonder if it still might with Lady Stoneheart?

In A Storm of Swords, unless I'm remembering wrong, Jaime goes for characterizing Brienne's eyes as "pretty" in his very first POV, to "beautiful" somewhere a little later, to "astonishing" at the end. They're getting together, accept it. :)