Odds of Jaime and Brienne Ending Up Together

[Ravenhair]

Abso bloody lutely. :) So far we have seen no other man stand up for Brienne, but Jaime does. He punches Red Ronnet in the face when he mocks her, and when he stops Loras from fighting her, he gets hurt when she does not realise what he has accomplished. As you say, Jaime may not articulate it yet, but his feelings for Brienne almost jump off the pages. In AFFC someone asks what he wants in a woman and he replies "innocence".

:agree:

Brienne really put her foot down with regards to marriage. Even if she may never have the chance, she has firmly said what I think Sansa articulates in AFFC: a wish to be loved for yourself and not just a cynical pawn in the game for social climbing, which both Brienne and Sansa are sought after for.

(You know as a total sidenote here and regarding what Cat praised in a woman, I think Jaime once remarked that she had broad hips and shoulders, so it's not like Brienne is totally and utterly built like a man, she's just tall and immensely strong for a woman.)

Totally, which is one of the reasons I really like Brienne and Jaime together. They're both such complete outsiders. I think she's almost the only one to have broken through his immense loneliness and that he makes a genuine connection with. And she doesn't see him as just "The Kingslayer". Other people may admire his skills or his looks, but Brienne knows his bad deeds and she can still respect him. I find his absolute trust in her really moving too. Jaime doesn't seem to trust anyone much, not his sister, not his brother, not his father, possibly Adam Marbrand to a degree, but Brienne he just seems to trust in an almost absolute fashion.

I think the most important part is that despite it all, Brienne seems to genuinely care for Jaime and he definitely cares for her. Their own choices, so go them!

He's been conditioned to think this way over years and years though, and that sort of thing doesn't die that quickly. He's still tormented over his feelings for Cersei in AFFC, but what is clear is that when he is around her, he's really starting to dislike her. He still thinks she is physically attractive, but he seems repulsed by her personality and actions. He mentions at some point that she constantly makes him angry. He's also still mulling over her betrayal of him, so no, I don't think he's completely over Cersei. In fact, I think it will take him a long time to get over her completely. I mean they've had an illicit relationship for 15-20 years. It's not going to go away in a couple of months. In fact, that it IS almost going away says a lot.

Well, Hyle did give her credit for killing the outlaws when they were both hauled before Randyll Tarly, and Hyle did leave Tarly to follow, albeit to propose marriage to get lands, produce an heir for Tarth, etc.

[Ravenhair]

lol, I'm beginning to really like Hyle as well. He stuck up for Brienne when Randyll Tarly was being a misogynistic prick to her and it got him canned. I even think his marriage offer was somewhat genuine lol.

As for Jaime, I'm stunned at how much sympathy George has been able to stir up for the guy who threw Bran from a window and was intent on killing/maiming Arya after Nymeria bit Joffrey. Even the new better version of Jaime threatens Edmure by saying he'll throw Edmure's baby at Riverrun from a catapult, and I still couldn't get angry at him.

I'd be so pissed if Jaime dies, but I don't see how. I think he's the one to kill Cersei (I imagine Cersei the constant screwup will manage to get Tommen killed and Jaime will kill her for it), and we still have his Weirwood induced dream which I'm guessing was prophetic.

Him and Brienne must end up together lol. They're so great together, one of my favorite character pairings in the novel.

You and I must have been posting at the same time. And you're right. Tarly did dismiss Hyle for defending Brienne's actions. Glad to see another person likes Brienne and Hyle.

[Lady Octarina]

That's a lot of baggage for someone which is why I think it could easily take years for him to move past.

It is said that passing through difficult/traumatic situations brings two people together more quickly and strongly than years of a calm life - what is more traumatic than the lost of a sword-hand, a bear-pit/nearly rape/torture incident and whatever they'll go through with the BwB? Not to mention wars in general? I think you're right that it's a lot of baggage, but under the circumstances it seems realistic that time and feelings go a bit more quickly for Jaime than it would during a peaceful period. ;)

Jaime's love for Cersei has taken a rather unloving path since SoS: he would never have thought of his lover/sister as the Queen of Whores before. On the other hand, I think that his weirwood tree dream means that Brienne is the one who'll redeem him. I mean, he tell her things he never said to anyone, they understand each other... But I know that there will only be bittersweetness at the end. So I think it'll end like that: they manage to escape Stoneheart, then start a relationship; Jaime even marries her and leave her at Casterly Rock when he leaves for the Great Final Battle. He survives it; when he comes back he keeps thinking of his future atoned life. When he arrives home, there's only Genna ( yes, I want Genna to survive. I love Genna.) who looks down and silently give him a little package in swaddleclothes, with golden hair and saphire blue eyes. Jaime then reflects on both his sadness and the fact that for the first time he actually loves a child of his own. Then he slowly exit the room, symbolizing his leaving the game of thrones...

You don't even know me; why do you have to make me cry?! :bawl: :crying:

Seriously though, yet another woman dying after giving birth? There have been too many; I still think it's more likely Jaime is the one to die but leave someone inside Brienne that he will probably never meet. (but I agree with you, Genna MUST survive!)

[Jolene Brown]

So I think it'll end like that: they manage to escape Stoneheart, then start a relationship; Jaime even marries her and leave her at Casterly Rock when he leaves for the Great Final Battle.

Ugh, the painful dilemma... I am a sentimental fool who wants Brienne and Jaime to have a baby, but damn it, I also want Brienne to be PART of the Great Final Battle... she deserves that. The timing is difficult.

[Lexy Boleyn]

It is said that passing through difficult/traumatic situations brings two people together more quickly and strongly than years of a calm life - what is more traumatic than the lost of a sword-hand, a bear-pit/nearly rape/torture incident and whatever they'll go through with the BwB? Not to mention wars in general? I think you're right that it's a lot of baggage, but under the circumstances it seems realistic that time and feelings go a bit more quickly for Jaime than it would during a peaceful period. ;)

You don't even know me; why do you have to make me cry?! :bawl: :crying:

Seriously though, yet another woman dying after giving birth? There have been too many; I still think it's more likely Jaime is the one to die but leave someone inside Brienne that he will probably never meet. (but I agree with you, Genna MUST survive!)

Sorry, I swear I didn't do it on purpose ( and it makes me cry too) :bawl: :crying: And if you're in a really melancolic mood one day, remember me to tell you my idea about the end, it's a delicious mix of sadness and cynism...

. And yes, there are lot of women dying in childbirth in that serie, but TECHNICALLY no main character of the serie did... Plus remember when Brienne reminds Cat that women can die in childbirth and nobody sings their praises... It would be sadly ironic if Brienne herself dies that way. And the bittersweet end promised by GRR MArtin is there: Jaime losing the loved one who atoned him, leaving the game, but having someone to love, not some semen in a cunt as were Cersei's kids in his mind, and the promise that this baby will have the love and happiness he lacked...

[Winter's Knight]

Ugh, the painful dilemma... I am a sentimental fool who wants Brienne and Jaime to have a baby, but damn it, I also want Brienne to be PART of the Great Final Battle... she deserves that. The timing is difficult.

No babies, damnit. :angry2:

Brienne and Jaime will end up as really good friends I hope. Best friends even-the Damon and Pythias of Westoros.

[Lexy Boleyn]

Ugh, the painful dilemma... I am a sentimental fool who wants Brienne and Jaime to have a baby, but damn it, I also want Brienne to be PART of the Great Final Battle... she deserves that. The timing is difficult.

Yes indeed: all the escaping/declaring/marrying would be done quickly, mostly for survival reasons, but the Great Final Battle would only occur in Book 7 ( just writing those two words make me dream of a future that may never be) there would be enough time gap for Brienne at last to show, or to notice she missed her courses...And even if she's one of the greatest warriors in Westeros, no pregnant woman would be allowed to risk the little one's life... I don't even thnk that she'd risk her baby's life. Another possibility is that she gives birth, survives and takes part to the battle, but imagining that little baby in its cradle, alone, while one of its parents are dying in the far North is even more depressing than what I suggested...

[Kittykatknits]

It is said that passing through difficult/traumatic situations brings two people together more quickly and strongly than years of a calm life - what is more traumatic than the lost of a sword-hand, a bear-pit/nearly rape/torture incident and whatever they'll go through with the BwB? Not to mention wars in general? I think you're right that it's a lot of baggage, but under the circumstances it seems realistic that time and feelings go a bit more quickly for Jaime than it would during a peaceful period. ;)

I've heard that too but not sure I agree. He's moving past her but has a long way to go. We saw quite a bit of bitterness towards her in Feast, he didn't want to believe that she had cheated, he still admitted to feeling attracted to her. So, he's moving but he's a long way away. She's been his other half, he said himself that if he were a woman that he would be Cersei. That's a lot to move past in a matter of months. I'm not saying that he can't begin a relationship with Brienne or that his feelings for her won't continue to develop, but I still think the impact of Cersei on his life is permanent.

No babies, damnit. :angry2:

Brienne and Jaime will end up as really good friends I hope. Best friends even-the Damon and Pythias of Westoros.

Hey- where is your pitch for Briensa? ;)

I agree on the babies. Brienne wants to be a knight and wants respect for her skills. I'd rather her have that.

[Winter's Knight]

Hey- where is your pitch for Briensa? ;)

I agree on the babies. Brienne wants to be a knight and wants respect for her skills. I'd rather her have that.

Are you implying that I'm biased? :P

Ah, Briennsa: Sansa longs for a true knight and just such a person is valiantly seeking her on a quest. To add to the fairy tale atmosphere, our little bird is being held prisoner in a tower by a wicked man who defends himself with dragons.

[Jolene Brown]

Another possibility is that she gives birth, survives and takes part to the battle, but imagining that little baby in its cradle, alone, while one of its parents are dying in the far North is even more depressing than what I suggested...

It wouldn't be alone! Neither parent has to die! :) Aunt Genna can take care of her (of course it would be a her) and then Jaime and Brienne can save the world so she has a future! It's like, their obligation. Ugh, I'm going to go draw a picture of rainbows and kittens now. I gross even myself out! :)

[Currawong]

He's moving past her but has a long way to go. We saw quite a bit of bitterness towards her in Feast, he didn't want to believe that she had cheated, he still admitted to feeling attracted to her. So, he's moving but he's a long way away. She's been his other half, he said himself that if he were a woman that he would be Cersei. That's a lot to move past in a matter of months. I'm not saying that he can't begin a relationship with Brienne or that his feelings for her won't continue to develop, but I still think the impact of Cersei on his life is permanent.

I really like the way GRRM is writing Jaime's emotional ups and downs, as it would be totally unrealistic for him to just "get over" Cersei in a matter of months. IRL, you don't just flick a switch and 'get over' someone with whom you have been so intensively involved over such a long time. Break-ups are extremely painful, especially where one person (in this case Jaime) also feels they have been betrayed, or that they have been blind to their partner's true self. I really love the way it seems to be two steps forward, one step back, in terms of how Jaime is dealing with the new realities of his relationship with Cersei, and questioning just 'who' he really is. Even if there was no incest, Cersei is still his twin, and that creates its own special bond.

And of course the impact of Cersei on his life will be permanent, even if / when the rift with her is completed and he moves on. Just think of the huge practical effect Cersei's had on his life - not just the incest (which was both of them) or three kids whom he cannot acknowledge, but the fact that he joined the KG at her persuasion, giving up his inheritance of Casterley Rock and causing a huge rift with his father. How different might his whole life have been if he hadn't been in the KG? No "Kingslayer" tag, for certain - the job of killing Aerys would have fallen to someone else in the rebellion. And no easy access to Cersei for the incest: he'd have been the Lannister heir at Casterley Rock for much of the time, and Cersei would undoubtedly have had Robert's real kids. These things can't just be shoved aside and forgotten: for better or worse they are a part of Jaime, and if / when he and Brienne move on to a deeper relationship, Brienne will need to accept this. There's every sign that she will be able to do this - she knows about Bran, and the incest, and she's the only one whom Jaime has told about Aerys.

ETA: Brienne carries her own emotional baggage in turn - three failed betrothals, and some deeply painful insecurities about being ugly and a freak, as well as being told she is stupid and slow. Obviously the death of her first betrothed was not her fault, but the second and third have left their inner scars. Rejection by Red Ronnet (and her sweet revenge when she thrashed him in the melee at Bitterbridge!), and the way she beat Ser Humphrey who wanted to insist she was a 'proper' woman after their marriage. One part of her still seems to long for her own shining knight, but that knight had better be prepared to accept and respect her as she is, scars and physical freak and all. The readers now know that even Renly, whom she worshipped, didn't respect her as she'd wanted. Despite his cruel jests at times, the only person who has respected her in her own right is Jaime, who gave her Oathkeeper and a true 'knightly' quest.

It's one of the reasons I like the idea of a Jaime / Brienne relationship - they each demand to be accepted for themselves, including their pasts and their mistakes, and so far they each seem to be taking steps in that direction.

[Kittykatknits]

I really like the way GRRM is writing Jaime's emotional ups and downs, as it would be totally unrealistic for him to just "get over" Cersei in a matter of months. IRL, you don't just flick a switch and 'get over' someone with whom you have been so intensively involved over such a long time. Break-ups are extremely painful, especially where one person (in this case Jaime) also feels they have been betrayed, or that they have been blind to their partner's true self. I really love the way it seems to be two steps forward, one step back, in terms of how Jaime is dealing with the new realities of his relationship with Cersei, and questioning just 'who' he really is. Even if there was no incest, Cersei is still his twin, and that creates its own special bond.

And of course the impact of Cersei on his life will be permanent, even if / when the rift with her is completed and he moves on. Just think of the huge practical effect Cersei's had on his life - not just the incest (which was both of them) or three kids whom he cannot acknowledge, but the fact that he joined the KG at her persuasion, giving up his inheritance of Casterley Rock and causing a huge rift with his father. How different might his whole life have been if he hadn't been in the KG? No "Kingslayer" tag, for certain - the job of killing Aerys would have fallen to someone else in the rebellion. And no easy access to Cersei for the incest: he'd have been the Lannister heir at Casterley Rock for much of the time, and Cersei would undoubtedly have had Robert's real kids. These things can't just be shoved aside and forgotten: for better or worse they are a part of Jaime, and if / when he and Brienne move on to a deeper relationship, Brienne will need to accept this. There's every sign that she will be able to do this - she knows about Bran, and the incest, and she's the only one whom Jaime has told about Aerys.

Beautifully stated, I could not agree more!! Even though Jaime and Brienne were thrown together under unique circumstances, for Jaime to suddenly heal in a short period of time would strike me as very unrealistic. Jaime is in the process of having to redefine himself, apart from the person who has been his other half for his entire life. It should be messy and sloppy, he should feel a variety of emotions. Anything less and I wouldn't but it.

If/when he enters in to a relationship with Brienne, I think that she knows and understands that she wold have to accept this fact about him. I also think she would be willing to do so and I'm fine with that. I respect Brienne's desire for him. But, like every relationship, there is the good and the bad. Any sort of relationship with Jaime will not be puppies and rainbows; the guy has issues. Some of those he can move past and some of those are permanent. Brienne will need to accept that.

So, back to my point, I completely agree with you.

[Currawong]

Totally, which is one of the reasons I really like Brienne and Jaime together. They're both such complete outsiders. I think she's almost the only one to have broken through his immense loneliness and that he makes a genuine connection with. And she doesn't see him as just "The Kingslayer". Other people may admire his skills or his looks, but Brienne knows his bad deeds and she can still respect him. I find his absolute trust in her really moving too. Jaime doesn't seem to trust anyone much, not his sister, not his brother, not his father, possibly Adam Marbrand to a degree, but Brienne he just seems to trust in an almost absolute fashion.

I think the most important part is that despite it all, Brienne seems to genuinely care for Jaime and he definitely cares for her. Their own choices, so go them!

:agree:

Forgot to say that I really liked this post, and the point about his loneliness and both being outsiders. I think Brienne is desperately lonely too. I just hope that they manage to survive and get past whatever UnCat has in store in TWOW, especially since GRRM has recently confirmed that the word Brienne shouted was 'sword'. Which seems to indicate that she was prepared to agree to kill Jaime in order to save Pod and Ser Hyle :( I hope the two of them manage to get around this somehow, because the idea of Brienne betraying anyone is painful enough, let alone the one person who's shown her any real respect (I am not counting young Pod of course). (Am holding onto the hope that by the end of ADWD, quite some time has passed since Jaime went off with her, and surely word of his death would have reached KL by then, seeing he has been 'missing' for some weeks. Killing the Kingslayer would not be something that the outlaws would want to keep quiet!) Ah well, hope is eternal, they say ....

Ugh, the painful dilemma... I am a sentimental fool who wants Brienne and Jaime to have a baby, but damn it, I also want Brienne to be PART of the Great Final Battle... she deserves that. The timing is difficult.

Well, they might definitely be an interesting pair in a fight. She's right-handed, he now fights with his left, so I could see them side by side, him on her left, with their shields between them - a pretty formidable fighting unit! :D

[Kittykatknits]

(Am holding onto the hope that by the end of ADWD, quite some time has passed since Jaime went off with her, and surely word of his death would have reached KL by then, seeing he has been 'missing' for some weeks. Killing the Kingslayer would not be something that the outlaws would want to keep quiet!) Ah well, hope is eternal, they say ....

This is one of the main reasons why I think he is alive. If the BWB killed the kingslayer, they'd want this news to be spread as quickly as possible. Instead, it is if he has disappeared. Jaime's alive, at least for now, I'm confident of that fact.

[Northern-She-Wolf]

I would love for them to be together but I know it is slim they have for friendship feelings for one another.

[The Crying Bald Man]

I would be really upset if they ended up together or had a "thing". it would be so cliche and would immediately make me think less of the quality of writing

[Jolene Brown]

Another thing I was thinking about today was the way Jaime sent Red Ronnet Connington away after the conversation they have at the bear pit at Harrenhall. The quote is "Jaime had charged Red Ronnet with the task of delivering Wylis Manderly to Maidenpool, so he would not need to look on him henceforth."

In my opinion, that seems awfully strong for just being annoyed that Red Ronnet made an insulting comment about Brienne. That seems more like jealousy, not wanting to look at the man who was once engaged, however disastrously, to the woman you are developing feelings for.

[Currawong]

In my opinion, that seems awfully strong for just being annoyed that Red Ronnet made an insulting comment about Brienne. That seems more like jealousy, not wanting to look at the man who was once engaged, however disastrously, to the woman you are developing feelings for.

Definitely. Plus Jaime probably also thought he might be tempted to do more than just hit the man with his golden hand, LOL.

I would be really upset if they ended up together or had a "thing". it would be so cliche and would immediately make me think less of the quality of writing

Why is any relationship a cliche if it is set up properly in the books, with well-written characters? There at least seems to be some reasonable basis for a J/B relationship. IMHO the idea of Jon + Dany is far more of a cliche, as so far there is no basis for that relationship at all in the books, other than some fairytale idea of "beautiful exiled princess returns to claim her throne and falls in love with a man who turns out to be a prince who didn't know his real identity". (The fact that one theory of Jon's identity would also have them as aunt and nephew is somehow forgotten!)

[Defengar]

33%

either they will end up together, One or both will die. Or they will go their seperate ways.

the last 1% goes to a random batshit theory I just made up where they the 2 of them will travel around with Dr. Who.

[Currawong]

Of course - but who falls in love with the Doctor? ;)