Odds of Jaime and Brienne Ending Up Together

[Jolene Brown]

I am D-Y-I-N-G to check out Lord Selwyn of Tarth. He is by far one of my most anticipated characters, to the extent that I am sort of afraid that it will be a letdown. I think the odds of us finally seeing him in TWOW are high. He had that increased mention thing going on in ADWD that often serves as notice that we'll be meeting someone soon (not a lot of mentions, obviously, but a few pointed name-drops). I think it's probably not a coincidence that Tarth was specifically singled out as one of the places where The Golden Company had landed.

Also, how cool a name is "The Evenstar"!

[Currawong]

Yes, I do hope he hasn't been killed, because then poor Brienne would be totally guilt-ridden about leaving him, or at least not going home again after she reached KL. I hope that somehow he got word that Brienne had escaped Vargo Hoat's clutches and had at least reached KL safely.

[Batman]

Slim to bugger all. The slim chance that they end up together is that they both get killed and end up rotting in the ground.

I would say about a 0.0001% chance that they end the story alive and as a couple.

[MsLibby]

LOL - I think Jaime and Brienne would probably quite like to raise their love child/ren themselves :) I get the impression that Jaime would like to be a 'real' father.

Didn't he come out and say it at one point (or rather think it). I remember a passage where he was lamenting his ability to show affection for the kids and he thinks he would like to have more children, ones he can hold himself. The line kinda stuck with me as I found it very sad.

[Lyanna Stark]

Didn't he come out and say it at one point (or rather think it). I remember a passage where he was lamenting his ability to show affection for the kids and he thinks he would like to have more children, ones he can hold himself. The line kinda stuck with me as I found it very sad.

He also takes Tommen outside when Tywin is stinking up the Sept of Baelor. It's the only time I remember when Jaime speaks to Tommen and it's described as "said Jaime to his son". So Jaime definitely thinks of Tommen as his son here, and he wants to speak to him as his father, only Cersei comes out and ruins everything.

He does think that he would like to tell Tommen and Myrcella that he is their real father. He also thinks after Joffrey dies that he'll give Cersei more children and that the Kingdom can be damned, this time he means to hold them himself. I think Jaime in many ways was shocked at his own lack of reaction to Joffrey's death. He reflects on what an awful person that makes him (I tend to think it makes him honest since there is no natural law that says we automatically love our children, especially not estranged ones). In the same vein, he seems to recognise that Joffrey was a pretty vile human being.

[MsLibby]

His practicality is one of the reasons I like Jaime. I understand people who do things, even bad things, for logical reasons. Even pushing Bran out the window makes sense to me. He knew Joffrey needed to die just as he needed to kill the King.

I'd rather like a guy who can make tough decisions and live with the consequences.

[Malena]

I dream of the moment Brienne takes Jaime home to meet Dad. I have read so much fanfiction about it that I can almost picture The Evenstar.

Oohh I remember that bit about Jaime longing to be a father, as I recall when he complains to Cersei that she never let him get closer to their children or when he regrets not mourning Joffrey (who does besides Cersei?) because he never felt like a father should.

I’m glad I found a place where others think Brienne should present the Kingslayer with blue or/and green-eyed babies.

• Jaime deserves a second chance at fatherhood. It’s another way to redeem himself.
  
• Brienne loves children. Even Sir Hyle notices her maternal instinct, and the only reason she is still alive is because she wants to save Podric who is like her surrogate son.
  
• I am tired of this image/concept that pregnant women or mothers with small babies are weak, useless and stupid. After Martin showed us the power of Melisandre in labor, he should further pursue the idea that pregnancy could be magic and empowering.
  

http://reinosdefabula.blogspot.com/

[Koston]

We may see Jamie's adoration for Brienne grow, and see that for the first time, he's about who a person is and how important that can be, but I don't think they'll ever be "together". I think one or both will die in the presence of the other and it will be a great moment of change in the remaining person's life.

[alors]

I waiver on this one. I do think there will be some sort of "consummation" of the relationship before either a) one of them (for some reason I don't think it will be both) dies tragically or B) they both live, but realize that they have greater obligations to the rest of the world which will not allow them to pursue anything more than a chaste and profoundly deep friendship. The true star-crossed lovers of stories immemorial. By "consummation" I don't mean they're going to DO IT, or even necessarily overtly acknowledge their feelings for one another, but rather something will occur--finely nuanced statements that leave more said by what is unsaid, or a simple touch--maybe even a chaste kiss--but something where they both realize and admit to themselves their feelings about the other, and realize the other's feelings for them, without actually coming out and SAYING it--if that makes sense. But then they go their separate ways--Jaime returns to the Kingsguard if he's welcome there, otherwise he takes off for parts unknown (not returning to Casterly Rock); Brienne--I don't know--maybe she returns to Tarth and finds a husband, maybe she continues on her path of noble quests. Who knows.

And I also think that it is not a denial of possibility of a sexual (they already have a romantic) relationship with only each other; it is that if they cannot be with each other as soulmates, they cannot be with anyone, or at least, anyone with the depth of the bond they share (cf. Brienne needing to find a husband, but there will never be more than a fondness from her to him--her heart and soul belong to Jaime.

**Not to say that I don't ship them--I totally do--but as much as I would love to see them together I just can't see how this could possibly work in the GRRM world of Westeros. It just doesn't seem realistic, and that's saying a LOT considering all that we do have to accept as real (zombies? dragons? magic? etc.). It breaks my heart that they won't be TOGETHER together, but in spirit will have to be enough. One of those "sacrificing your own desires for the greater good" sort of thing.

[romantic]

LOL - I think Jaime and Brienne would probably quite like to raise their love child/ren themselves :) I get the impression that Jaime would like to be a 'real' father.

But I agree that Lord Selwyn sounds an interesting and unusual person. He must truly love his daughter if he allowed her to follow her own, non-traditional way, train as a warrior and then go off to war.

Maybe Jaime can stay home with the kids while Brienne fulfills her promise to Cat to get Sansa to safety. I think once Jaime has a baby to care for he'll have nightmares about once threatening to trebuchet Edmure's baby.

Lord Selwyn - I'd like to nominate him for best father in Westeros (though not a lot of competition there :huh: ).

Also, does anyone else worry that Pretty Meris is a warning about what Brienne the Beauty may become if she's a career woman warrior for 20+ years. (Does anyone know anything about Brienne's amother - she couldn't be [warning - crackpot theory] Pretty Meris?)

[Jolene Brown]

The impression I get is that Brienne's mother probably died in childbirth, but there's no real foundation for that in the text. We only know that Brienne never really knew her (another interesting thing she has in common with Jaime, although he was at least 8 when his mother died, while I would guess that Brienne was younger). I do think the Pretty Meris thing is a definite cautionary tale about the dangers of the path Brienne has chosen. I found that storyline very interesting. However, it may also reflect the difference between the life of a common woman (I would guess) who becomes a sellsword in Essos and a noblewoman who tries to be a knight in Westeros. But certainly, without Jaime's trickery, Brienne might have been abused by the Brave Companions as Pretty Meris had been by those around her.

[Faint]

In the same vein, he seems to recognise that Joffrey was a pretty vile human being.

Yeah, long after he could have done anything about it. So typically Jaime . . .

[Jolene Brown]

Yeah, long after he could have done anything about it. So typically Jaime . . .

This is true, but Joffrey was sort of a lost cause anyway, wasn't he? :)

He does seem to be trying with Tommen. I like their scenes together in AFFC a lot.

[Currawong]

Yeah, long after he could have done anything about it. So typically Jaime . . .

That's very unfair - what could be have done? Cersei has always insisted that he not become too close to the children, so I don't think he's been allowed to be anything other than "Uncle Jaime" at a suitable distance. He could hardly insist on his 'rights' to access, after all, when the kids were supposedly Robert's!! So his opportunities to discipline Joffrey were extremely limited. Had he been around in KL after Robert's death, instead of being held prisoner at Riverrun, I'm sure he would have dealt Joffrey a few good put-downs, just as Tyrion did, and it may have had a slightly better effect coming from Ser Jaime in the KG. On the other hand, super-protective Cersei may not have allowed him to get too tough with her precious son even if he'd needed it. Don't forget that Cersei didn't even allow Jaime to give much comfort to poor little Tommen when the kid became upset at Tywin's funeral.

[Lyanna Stark]

Yeah, long after he could have done anything about it. So typically Jaime . . .

Yes, Jaime has a lot of regrets. :)

To be fair, Jaime seems to have clamped down on his wish to have any interaction with his children because of Cersei who said he was not allowed to hold Joffrey. From that moment onwards, it seems as if Jaime really took a metaphorical step back and decided he wasn't going to care about the children as his.

[Kittykatknits]

Yes, Jaime has a lot of regrets. :)

To be fair, Jaime seems to have clamped down on his wish to have any interaction with his children because of Cersei who said he was not allowed to hold Joffrey. From that moment onwards, it seems as if Jaime really took a metaphorical step back and decided he wasn't going to care about the children as his.

I agree. Most in Westeros seem to dismiss him once he became the Kingslayer. I always got the impression his tipping point is when Cersei made him keep his distance from his children. He defines his killing of Aerys as his finest moment so he may have broken a vow but he did the right thing. But, his relationship with Cersei defined him. He'd already strayed from the ideals of knighthood and then Cersei did that. So, he stopped trying at all.

[Le Cygne]

Love all the things you all are noticing about the story, really makes you appreciate the thought he puts into the writing.

[Le Cygne]

Sorry I posted this somewhere else!

[Booknerd2]

The may not end up together, but she was a big catalyst for him starting to become distanced and alienated from Cersei and her machinations.

Back to the prophecy even, to paraphrase, another more beautiful will come around and take everything you hold dear. (sorry, I don't have the exact wording in front of me) This could be referring to Cersei losing Jaime's love, commitment, aiding her causes as he used to, to Brienne, who has the misfortune of the nickname the Beauty, but also she really is a character that is honorable, noble, and beautiful on the inside. Which Cersei would never understand being beautiful and thinking it HAS or MUST refter to a young girl who will be more attractive than she is.

The Jaime and Brienne dynamic, if she learns of this, would blow her mind. Not sure she could even understand it let alone believe it.

[Currawong]

An interesting suggestion, booknerd2. If much of the prophecy is metaphorical, then the bit about the valonquar choking Cersei with hands around her throat could also be a figure of speech, as Cersei would certainly be 'choked' if she discovered that she had truly lost Jaime to another, more beautiful woman in the sense you suggest. And I definitely agree that Cersei could never believe or understand how Jaime would find someone like Brienne more "beautiful" than his twin. Jaime is only now seeing Cersei for who she truly is, but at the same time, I don't think Cersei has ever understood Jaime at all.