Casperjd2 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Does anybody have any theories about the letter Robb had made up before the Red Wedding, that said Jon is to rule if anything happens to Robb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jem Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 We don't actually know that Robb named Jon as his heir. It is strongly implied, but not outright stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyJAM Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 If his lords honour Robb's command, Jon is King in the North. Doesn't even matter that Bran and Rickon are actually alive, Jon being legitimised puts him as the number one heir. How it will play out. . .well, who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Yeah, we never actually see the person Robb named. It could be Jon, but it might not be. The people alive who know about it are either in prison (possibly just released from the Twins?) or somewhere in the Neck (Maege Mormont and Galbart Glover). Not sure if it's come into play yet in a way that isn't yet evident.If his lords honour Robb's command, Jon is King in the North. Doesn't even matter that Bran and Rickon are actually alive, Jon being legitimised puts him as the number one heir. Not the case, necessarily. Barring political expediency or maneuvering, legitimized bastards come after all trueborn children, including girls. So Jon just being legitimized in and of itself doesn't put him ahead of Bran, Rickon, Arya and Sansa. It's implied that Sansa might be disinherited to prevent the Lannisters from controlling the north through her children with Tyrion. It all depends on how the will is worded. If Robb says something like, "I legitimize Jon Snow and name him my heir," then yeah, it's Jon. But if he says, "I legitimize Jon Snow and name him my heir in the event that my trueborn siblings are dead," then Jon is still at the bottom of the pile. If Robb is "sure" that his brothers and Arya are dead and he did disinherit Sansa, then he could very well have just named Jon the heir outright. But without actually seeing the will, there's no way to know for sure how it's worded or if Jon is even named an heir at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Grylls of Skagos Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Can Robb name one of his bannermen as the king in the north? Even though he may not be related directly but there maybe 4th,5th,6th cousins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I've been waiting for this as a game changer myself, but we've seen how easily paper tears before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Can Robb name one of his bannermen as the king in the north? Even though he may not be related directly but there maybe 4th,5th,6th cousinsHe and Catelyn talk about that. They're related to some ... Royces? ... in the Vale and the Karstarks are close kin, but political relations with them have chilled for obvious reasons.I imagine that the pick is either Jon or someone we haven't seen considered in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Would it matter? Jon has taken oaths as a brother of the Night's Watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Would it matter? Jon has taken oaths as a brother of the Night's Watch.Robb was thinking of attempting to free Jon from his oaths in exchange for providing men to the Watch in his place. I don't know if that even matters anymore or if it's in the will or what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyJAM Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Barring political expediency or maneuvering, legitimized bastards come after all trueborn children, including girls.Oh. I didn't know.Where does this get stated in the book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casperjd2 Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 Makes it interesting that a Royce was killed in the very first seen. But I just read the part and there is no actual document or Royal Decree. Robb and Cat just talk about it so no proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Oh. I didn't know.Where does this get stated in the book?It's on the Wiki if you look for it and I found this:http://www.westeros....and_the_Whents/and this:http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Concordance/Entry/Bastards/Basically it comes down to politics.Makes it interesting that a Royce was killed in the very first seen. But I just read the part and there is no actual document or Royal Decree. Robb and Cat just talk about it so no proof.Well yeah that's the point. We don't know definitively whom Robb named. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casperjd2 Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 Yeah so now I am thinking this has no real meaning to the story other than to paint a clearer picture of the honor of the Starks.Both Rob and Jon both lop heads off people they have judged. So I think its just detail now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna Stark Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Yeah so now I am thinking this has no real meaning to the story other than to paint a clearer picture of the honor of the Starks.Both Rob and Jon both lop heads off people they have judged. So I think its just detail now.It is important since once the north regroups, it will need a leader. Jon Snow has experience in leading since his time as Lord Commander, which would be an important facet. As much as I love Arya, Sansa and Bran, none of them are generals.If Sansa is disinherited and this stands, it also means that whatever plot LF is hatching for her falls flat.But again, it comes down to politics and shows of force more than pieces of paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue-eyed Onion Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Would it matter? Jon has taken oaths as a brother of the Night's Watch.Yes, and not only that, he already refused the Lord of Winterfell tittle, why would he choose to become something even bigger, a king, now? No, my opinion is that this king of the north stuff is done for good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Know Face Man Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 If Robbs Will makes Jon legitimate, it doesn't mean he becomes a Stark. Just makes him no longer a bastard.The Great Bastards didn't become Targs, they all kept their last names or made new ones. And were not put in front of the younger heirs in line.So Jon just being legitimate doesn't make him Heir. But if Robb makes him a Stark then Jon is put next in line if Robb if left with no issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 If Robbs Will makes Jon legitimate, it doesn't mean he becomes a Stark. Just makes him no longer a bastard.The Great Bastards didn't become Targs, they all kept their last names or made new ones. And were not put in front of the younger heirs in line.So Jon just being legitimate doesn't make him Heir. But if Robb makes him a Stark then Jon is put next in line if Robb if left with no issueIt could mean he becomes a Stark. If that's the point of the legitimization, it probably will. As to where it stands between legitimized male vs. always legit female, I just don't know. Is there any evidence of a consistently applied standard?If anything, in a state of war, I'd see them more likely to lean towards erring on the side of the agnatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Yes, and not only that, he already refused the Lord of Winterfell tittle, why would he choose to become something even bigger, a king, now? No, my opinion is that this king of the north stuff is done for good.Not the same situation at all. The first offer came from Stannis and Jon would have had to reject his family's gods. He also thought that Winterfell wasn't Stannis' to give. I think it'd be an entirely different outcome if the offer came from Robb.If Robbs Will makes Jon legitimate, it doesn't mean he becomes a Stark. Just makes him no longer a bastard.The Great Bastards didn't become Targs, they all kept their last names or made new ones. And were not put in front of the younger heirs in line.So Jon just being legitimate doesn't make him Heir. But if Robb makes him a Stark then Jon is put next in line if Robb if left with no issueFor all intents and purposes, it does basically make him a "Stark." That's the point of legitimization in the first place, isn't it? He would take the family name; the Great Bastards are kind of a unique set. And if he's legitimized, he'd enter the line of succession, unless Robb specifically disinherits him (and what's the point of that?). That's why you legitimize someone, so that they can legally inherit titles and/or property. The questions are, did Robb actually legitimize Jon, and if he did, did he Robb hash out a specific succession — is it Jon free and clear, or only Jon if all the other kids are dead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I'm not going to lie, I would fanboy all over the book if Jon somehow became King of the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuisDantas Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Yes, and not only that, he already refused the Lord of Winterfell tittle, why would he choose to become something even bigger, a king, now? No, my opinion is that this king of the north stuff is done for good.Learning of Robb's will would make quite the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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