ab aeterno Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 But it was Drogo who paid for Dany, not the other way around. It's not a bride dowry if it's the groom who's paying it.Exactly. This point (that Viserys/Illyrio sold her to Drogo,) is made over and over again throughout the books by numerous characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuisDantas Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Some observations about points made on the first page of this thread.Drogo only agreed to marry Daenerys after seeing her in person, so her appearance had significative weight on his decision. We also learn in AGOT that Drogo in particular and the Dothraki in general hardly even believe, much less care, on the existence of Westeros or of House Targaryen. Odds are good that the Dosh Khaleen gave him their blessing for marrying Daenerys, but she was just a pretty girl with an exotic form of beauty, and not at all someone of "High Birth" far as the Dothraki were concerned.Viserys, Jorah and Illyrio point out at several times that while Drogo has promised his khalasar's support for Viserys' claim, there is no promise about when that will happen, nor leverage to use to pressure Drogo into doing his part. One can't help but also notice that the Dothraki have little respect for Viserys or for anyone else who does not carry their own weight; they're as unaristocratic a society as they come. Daenerys and Viserys are only accepted and fed as a display of respect for Drogo's power, not for their own sakes.Dothraki marriages _are_ mentioned early on; Illyrio says that they are considered dull when there are no deaths during the proceedings. It is however also implied that not many Dothraki bother with marriage and that they see little or even no difference between rape and legitimate breeding. We are all but told that they use the Lamb Men and other tribes as breeding grounds and expect them to produce children that they may take when they come of age. There is no indication against the hypothesis that marriage is something that only Khals bother with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 But it was Drogo who paid for Dany, not the other way around. It's not a bride dowry if it's the groom who's paying it.That had slipped my mind. It doesnt really make sense since dowries have been shown in the series with Alayne and the merchants daughter who married Lord Corbray. They were larger than usual because of the low birth of the woman, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adar Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I have no clue what it is that you're arguing, so I'll just leave it.I fold. Maybe you are right. I don't think GRRM intended to be cryptic with this and I can always improve my reading comprehension. I just don't think Drogo is conniving enough to compete with Illyrio on that front, but I like how some folks think he is smart enough to be. I miss him. All Dany's current suitors are disillusioned into thinking she has a gentle heart. He knew she was a BAMF who was fierce, greedy, and ambitious like he was. They were so perfect for each other that I feel that the higher powers must have been involved in their pairing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirut Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Daenerys is "The most beautiful woman in the world".Isn't that enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaenysBee Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I'm going to say a damn absurd thing now:Because he LIKED her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab aeterno Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I'm going to say a damn absurd thing now:Because he LIKED her?Hadn't he only known her for around a day at the point at which he married her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaenysBee Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Hadn't he only known her for around a day at the point at which he married her?Don't you ask someone for a date after knowing her for one day if you like her? Westeros/Essos doesn't date. There you are.And you are forgetting that the marriage pact was offered to him, so it wasn't his idea. And Drogo was in his early thirties and probably wanted a son too...This is overanalyzing. Drogo and Daenerys are just a simply love story Martin was so kind as to spoil with Drogo's death :( (My opinion, don't have to agree) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab aeterno Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Don't you ask someone for a date after knowing her for one day if you like her? Westeros/Essos doesn't date. There you are.And you are forgetting that the marriage pact was offered to him, so it wasn't his idea. And Drogo was in his early thirties and probably wanted a son too...This is overanalyzing. Drogo and Daenerys are just a simply love story Martin was so kind as to spoil with Drogo's death :( (My opinion, don't have to agree)Yes, I agree that a lot of this is overanalysis, but it is a fair question I think: Why did Drogo want Daenarys enough to buy her from Illyrio? For my money the answer is probably just that he was told that she was the most beautiful woman in the world and he saw her as a trophy, at least before he married her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R'hllor's Bastard Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 What did Drogo pay for Dany? Do we even know for sure Drogo promised 40k men? Illyrio likely was translating for Viserys. Even if he did, The dothraki concepts of deals and barter are vague at best. I got the impression that when Viserys talked about collecting his end of the bargain, the Dothraki were like " why does this dude keep talking about some soldiers and some kingdom?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian of the Lhazareen Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Yes, I agree that a lot of this is overanalysis, but it is a fair question I think: Why did Drogo want Daenarys enough to buy her from Illyrio? For my money the answer is probably just that he was told that she was the most beautiful woman in the world and he saw her as a trophy, at least before he married her.Drogo didn't pay Ilyrio, the dothraki don't even use surency, they give and recieve gifts, yes he was meant to support Viserys but did he? no, he only chose to invade westeros when robert tried to have her assasinated, not becasue of there agreement, IMO drogo screwed Ilyrio over becasue he has a big ass khalasar and he can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Drogo didn't pay Ilyrio, the dothraki don't even use surency, they give and recieve gifts, yes he was meant to support Viserys but did he? no, he only chose to invade westeros when robert tried to have her assasinated, not becasue of there agreement, IMO drogo screwed Ilyrio over becasue he has a big ass khalasar and he can.I think you need to reread that bit again. "She knew that Illyrio could afford to be lavish. He had collected a fortune in horses and slaves for his part in selling her to Khal Drogo."Drogo paid for Dany, not the other way around. That in and of itself should be a big red flag that some other factor was at work there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab aeterno Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Drogo didn't pay Ilyrio, the dothraki don't even use surency, they give and recieve gifts, yes he was meant to support Viserys but did he? no, he only chose to invade westeros when robert tried to have her assasinated, not becasue of there agreement, IMO drogo screwed Ilyrio over becasue he has a big ass khalasar and he can.Semantics aside, everyone involved, Dany, Viserys, Jorah, etc. talk about Illyrio selling her to Drogo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaenysBee Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Yes, I agree that a lot of this is overanalysis, but it is a fair question I think: Why did Drogo want Daenarys enough to buy her from Illyrio? For my money the answer is probably just that he was told that she was the most beautiful woman in the world and he saw her as a trophy, at least before he married her.Yes, he payed, because that was the marriage pact. That he pays and gives an army to Viserys once he sees fit in exchange for Daenerys. And I guess the show captured why Drogo eventually agreed this pact when Illyrio tells Viserys "If he didn't like her, we would know." Drogo liked Daenerys and that was also probably enhanced by the Most beautiful woman in the world legend. If he didn't find her the most beautiful woman in the world he would have said, Okay, Illyrio, piss off, I don't like her. Dothraki are not like to believe Daenerys is the Most Beautiful Woman In The World, only because some foreigner shit says so.Besides: ALL marriage pacts were like that. That somebody PAYS. We are in the middle ages, people. What's the big deal about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab aeterno Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Besides: ALL marriage pacts were like that. That somebody PAYS. We are in the middle ages, people. What's the big deal about that?Baratheon + Stark, or Baratheon-Lannister + Tyrell, or Stark+Tully make more sense than Dothraki+ Targaryen, I think was the point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaenysBee Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Baratheon + Stark, or Baratheon-Lannister + Tyrell, or Stark+Tully make more sense than Dothraki+ Targaryen, I think was the point...Well the sense is that Viserys gets his army. That's why the whole idea. Illyrio was - not paid, but given horses and slaves - for brokering the thing. And I don't think some slaves and horses were a really great price to Drogo who led a khalasar of 40000 riders also a hell of a lot of slaves... so I still don't see the big deal about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab aeterno Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Well the sense is that Viserys gets his army. That's why the whole idea. Illyrio was - not paid, but given horses and slaves - for brokering the thing. And I don't think some slaves and horses were a really great price to Drogo who led a khalasar of 40000 riders also a hell of a lot of slaves... so I still don't see the big deal about this.You're arguing with the wrong person. I'm not saying it's a big deal, I'm not even concerned either way. All I said was that it was a fair question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R'hllor's Bastard Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Drogo was GIVEN a mansion in Pentos just to not loot it, I dont think he has to pay for aything in that city, he could have just taken Dany without anything in return. which is pretty much what he did. Unless you count a promise as payment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Besides: ALL marriage pacts were like that. That somebody PAYS. We are in the middle ages, people. What's the big deal about that?The issue, as we've repeated more than a few times now, is that traditionally, the bride's family/guardian pays, not the groom's. Look at the Tully marriages. Ned and Jon married Catelyn and Lysa in return for Hoster's miltary support in the war. Their dowry was the Tully force and the Riverlands giving its support to Robert. In a situation where it's the groom who pays, that's an oddity and I think it deserves to be examined. It's disingenuous to write it off as "someone always pays" when it is specifically the bride's family who does so in the vast majority of cases.Well the sense is that Viserys gets his army. That's why the whole idea. Illyrio was - not paid, but given horses and slaves - for brokering the thing. And I don't think some slaves and horses were a really great price to Drogo who led a khalasar of 40000 riders also a hell of a lot of slaves... so I still don't see the big deal about this.There are more ways to be "paid" than just given hard currency. The word Dany uses is "fortune," which suggests that yes, it was an extremely expensive and valuable payment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Drogo was GIVEN a mansion in Pentos just to not loot it, I dont think he has to pay for aything in that city, he could have just taken Dany without anything in return. which is pretty much what he did. Unless you count a promise as payment.No, he didn't. He paid Illyrio in horses and slaves for brokering the contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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