Anwar Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 As for LF and Varys knowing all along...is there any evidence that they did? I can see Varys thinking about it since he was in contact with Robert's other bastards, but I don't think LF knew until Stannis did and he decided to have them investigated so he'd figure out what they were searching for. Once he did, that was when he devised his plan to start a war against the Lannisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrum Aeternum Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 As for LF and Varys knowing all along...is there any evidence that they did? I can see Varys thinking about it since he was in contact with Robert's other bastards, but I don't think LF knew until Stannis did and he decided to have them investigated so he'd figure out what they were searching for. Once he did, that was when he devised his plan to start a war against the Lannisters. I don't think there's any direct evidence that Varys knew, but with his eyes and ears around the castle being what they were, I'd be surprised if he didn't at least have a strong suspicion based on Jaime and Cersei's movements about the Red Keep. Agree with you on LF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Varys says he knew-from ACoK, between Tyrion and Varys:“He accuses my brother and sister of incest. I wonder how he came by that suspicion.”“Perhaps he read a book and looked at the color of a bastard’s hair, as Ned Stark did, and Jon Arryn before him. Or perhaps someone whispered it in his ear.” The eunuch’s laugh was not his usual giggle, but deeper and more throaty.“Someone like you, perchance?”“Am I suspected? It was not me.”“If it had been, would you admit it?”“No. But why should I betray a secret I have kept so long? It is one thing to deceive a king, and quite another to hide from the cricket in the rushes and the little bird in the chimney. Besides, the bastards were there for all to see.”“Robert’s bastards? What of them?”“He fathered eight, to the best of my knowing,” Varys said as he wrestled with the saddle. “Their mothers were copper and honey, chestnut and butter, yet the babes were all black as ravens . . . and as ill-omened, it would seem. So when Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen slid out between your sister’s thighs, each as golden as the sun, the truth was not hard to glimpse.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milcov Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Ring Robert is just like Tywin Lannister in that he didn't want to see the truth that was right in front of him.Tywin didn't want to see it. Robert was too drunk/stupid to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anwar Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Varys says he knew-from ACoK, between Tyrion and Varys:Varys says he knew-from ACoK, between Tyrion and Varys:Exactly, he knew about Robert's bastards from Edric Storm and Gendry. He probably began his own investigations into Robert's other bastards to set them up nicely too (Varys was the one who got Gendry his blacksmith job, right?) and noticed the similarities so it was easy for him to see how Joff and the others were nothing like their supposed half-brothers/sisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyoftheNorth72 Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I am not convinced that Robert didn't know, or at least suspect. I think he just didn't care enough to go actively seeking out the truth, so he made himself blind to it. Not to mention the fact of how dependent he was on the Lannisters' support, and the absolute PR nightmare of it becoming common knowledge. Robert would have been a laughingstock from the Wall to Dorne if it got out that his wife had been cuckolding him for over a decade, with her brother no less, and that he had accepted as his own three kids who were products of incest. It would have made him an object of derision and scorn, and as king he could not afford that. Better to drink some more wine, visit another whorehouse, and just forget about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Raven Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 I seriously doubt he even suspected.If he did he would have gone on a rampage killing Cersei and the children. Robert didn't mind Rhaegar's children being killed and he actively put a hit on Danaerys, a girl Joffrey's age; he'd have no problem putting the other kids' heads on spikes. Ned knew Robert well enough to know that Robert would kill them, that's why Ned gave Cersei a chance to escape first before spilling the beans. Robert would know if Ned and Jon Arryn figured it out, others did too and were probably laughing at him in their cups. Better to swiftly, publicly and with a big show of strength and drama get rid of "those abominations" or else be seen as a weak king who was easy to get away with fooling (worse than he already was). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carey Snow Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 King Robert did not want to know. He wanted to keep the party going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Robert never paid attention to his wife and never noticed an unguarded interaction between Jaime and Cersei. Robert certainly never read the book on descripions of the houses offspring. Robert probably never read much anyway. Besides, other than Targaryens, no other house in Westeros was known for even contemplating, Brother / Sister fornication. It was simply unthinkable for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etu Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 I can't see why Robert would begin to suspect.If he did though, that would have been a pretty sweet civil war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyJAM Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 For those saying he didn't want to know, I have to disagree. I think he'd have jumped on the chance to distance himself from Joffrey.But really, what reason did he have to think they weren't his? They didn't have the same hair colour? That's pushing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miriel Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Bob.*giggle* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Lannister Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 I thought it was just a case of looking everywhere except under your nose for the enemy. The guy spent his entire reign stagnating away and growing paranoid about enemies from afar; he was just fighting enemies and stewing over treason in all the wrong places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Katherine Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Bob.*giggle*Yes! My reaction as well!Anyway...I kinda chalk it up to everyone, Robert included, just assuming that the three kids just resemble their mother...Does anyone remember if the child Cersei had aborted was before or after Joffrey? (or do we even know?) My book is literally in the next room over, and I could go get it but I'm lazy! Anyway, I think if Cersei had Robert's trueborn child AFTER J, T, or M, then maybe there would have been some suspicion, but again, who knows... My mom is Italian and Scandanavian, and my dad is German-Scandanavian. My parents are both medium brown hair, relatively fair-skinned. My brother looks full-blown Italian (black hair, very tan), whereas I am lighter than both of my parents (almost blonde), yet I'm pretty sure my brother and I are both my parents' kids...Also, "Bob" knew he had been having drunken sex with Cersei, because he apologizes to her every morning after for hurting her. In that case, he had no reason to suspect the kids were anyone else's except his own... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnorak Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Never saw this as a plot hole. It is the catalyst if anything. People (LF and Varys primarily) know that Robert has no trueborn heir and are scheming to use this fact to claim the throne.Robert lost his parents at an early age and isn't close to his brothers so what sense of family does he have to feel off about his relationship with Joffrey? He is about as bonded with his son as he is with his brothers. It isn't like Cersei never sleeps with Robert, she even mentions having taken moontea to Ned. Besides if Robert did have a nagging suspicion that something was wrong, he would drink, whore or hunt until it went away.Plus it wasn't really 15 years. Joffrey was only thirteen and it isn't likely the men at court would start paying any real attention to him until he reached an age where he'd start showing prowess at arms. Even then the first reactions to sensing something is amiss would be "he's spends too much time with his mother" or "he needs to be fostered someplace" not "omg the queen's banging her brother." Those close to Robert who cared, Jon Arryn and Stannis, did eventually wonder enough to figure it out and that's when the book starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady of Long Lake Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I am not convinced that Robert didn't know, or at least suspect. I think he just didn't care enough to go actively seeking out the truth, so he made himself blind to it. Not to mention the fact of how dependent he was on the Lannisters' support, and the absolute PR nightmare of it becoming common knowledge. Robert would have been a laughingstock from the Wall to Dorne if it got out that his wife had been cuckolding him for over a decade, with her brother no less, and that he had accepted as his own three kids who were products of incest. It would have made him an object of derision and scorn, and as king he could not afford that. Better to drink some more wine, visit another whorehouse, and just forget about it.That's my feelings too. I had some notes in my one book that my dog chewed the covers off of LOL!I think one of my notes was something Littlefinger said to Ned about Robert. He said that Robert was gifted at "not seeing what he did not want to see". Another was a comment Ned made after Lady was killed. It was along the same lines as what LF said- that Robert always was good at turning away and hiding from truths. Another note I wrote was the line that Robert said to Ned, " How could I have fathered a son like that?". That isn't something men joke about, usually.And why did Robert pay a lot of attention to Mya Stone (before the War and Cersei) and we hear of no interaction of his with his 3 kids?And why does he still have Lyanna on a pedestal, 15 years later? Certainly he heard rumors about the truth of it. So many people saw Rhaegar give Lynanna the bouquet at the tourney and even Cersei knows that Rhaegar fell in love with "that She-Wolf".Maybe that's why Robert drank so much. When he was sober, it might have been harder to keep the bad thoughts at bay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Robert was a fool and a drunk. That's it, pretty simple really. Plus it really wasn't that obvious. So his kids looked like their mother, not like him - this happens all the time and in 99% of the cases there's no cheating involved. I am 100% sure he didn't suspect anything, he wouldn't stand for it if he did, he was too much of a hothead and with too much pride for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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