Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Northern Girl 30

Re-read..Little Robert Arryn and fostering

31 posts in this topic

I am re-reading GofT and am at the point where Catelyn is negotiating with Lord Frey about the crossing...

People seem to have different ideas on where Jon Arryn's son was to be fostered. Catelyn had thought he was supposed to go to Lord Tywin at Casterly Rock while Lord Frey says he was to go with Lord Stannis at Dragonstone..it comes up a couple times too about where he was supposed to go...

I am assuming Jon Arryn changed his mind once he realized about the Lannister's incest...is there anything else significant to this that anyone has picked up?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm rereading as well and noticed this too. Don't know the answer but it seemed it must be significant that Catelyn and Frey were getting different versions of this. Glad to know someone else felt the same way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My guess is that, Stannis was Jon Aryn's idea while Tywin was Robert's. Jon and Stannis seemed pretty close, riding out to find Robert's bastards together and all that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmmm, I think there is more to this. When you combine this with the fact that he said "The seed is strong", I am sure there is a twist coming SOMEWHERE. Not sure if young Robert is the twist himself, but he has a part to play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

its mentioned at another part in the book as well. iifc it happens while ned is searching to the remaining members of arryns household people in kings landing. ned says something to the effect of robert arryn being fostered at casterly rock and he is corrected by the person, whom i forget the identity of, he is interrogating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was Jory reporting what he learned to Eddard.

The potboy, now cordwainer, had never exchanged so much as a word with Lord Jon, but he was full of oddments of kitchen gossip: the lord had been quarreling with the king, the lord only picked at his food, the lord was sending his boy to be fostered on Dragonstone,

And later on, Catelyn.

Catelyn frowned, disquieted. “I had understood that Lysa’s boy was to be fostered with Lord Tywin at Casterly Rock.”

“No, it was Lord Stannis,” WaIder Frey said irritably

BIG SPOILER

I think that's ultimately the reason why Jon Arryn was murdered. He didn't have the chance to tell anyone else yet that he's sending his son to Dragonstone before he died. Which was why Robert later came up with the idea of sending the boy to Casterly Rock. Causing Lysa to flee King's Landing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

King Robert tells Eddard in the first of his chapters that he, Robert, had sworn to protect Robert Arryn and that he was mad on Lysa for running away with the boy to the Vale without asking him first. King robert says that Lysa refused to hear more about it and then ran away. It do sounds like Robert arranged for the boy to be a warden at Lannister after Jon died and that made Lysa run away.

I guess that king Robert didn´t think much about his brother Stannis in Dragonstone. He must have known that Jon planned to send him there, as you write above, even Walder Frey knew that. I wonder why Walder knew that and why he cared, had he tried to get him fostered at the Twins?

It is rather interesting that Tywin Lannister is to take care of the boy, in the chapter EddardI do the king say that this was to be the first warden that he had taken.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Am i the only one who took Jon Arryn's *The Seed is Strong* to mean that he had planted suspicions and clues etc as to the secret of Joff's birth? With the seed of doubt strong enough to lead Ned to the truth. Does that even make sense? it did in my head hehe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Am i the only one who took Jon Arryn's *The Seed is Strong* to mean that he had planted suspicions and clues etc as to the secret of Joff's birth? With the seed of doubt strong enough to lead Ned to the truth. Does that even make sense? it did in my head hehe.

The meaning I got from "the seed is strong" is that all of Roberts bastards look like him (Dark Hair and what not) no matter who or what their mothers where / looked like. Implying that Cersei kids can not be Roberts kids because they look nothing like him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There was a conversation between Lady Stark and someone at the tourney determining whether Tyrion would 'fly' or not. She corrected the person talking to her and said, "No, that decision to foster Robert was made after Jon's death" and the other said, "No the decision was made earlier..." and they were interrupted by the battle.

Made me immediately think that Jon was murdered by Lysa because he wanted to send Robert away from her..... Poison is a woman's weapon after all......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Am i the only one who took Jon Arryn's *The Seed is Strong* to mean that he had planted suspicions and clues etc as to the secret of Joff's birth? With the seed of doubt strong enough to lead Ned to the truth. Does that even make sense? it did in my head hehe.

Yes! I like your theory! No other explanation has really seemed to make sense to me and it has been bothering me for quite some time!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I noticed it too. It came up quite a few times.

I think it just means that none of these people who knew about the Stannis foster knew of the Casterly Rock foster. As such, the plan to send lil Robert to be fostered happened after Jon Arryn's death and is imparted on Robert by the Queen.

This, combined with their plan to install Jaime Lannister as Warden of the East, means the Lannisters probably have a design for the Vale. Likely they want to acquire the Vale into their power domain.

As to why this is significant and how it affects the story, only God and Martin knows. It is quite a mystery to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jon Arryn was planning to foster Robert in Dragonstone with Stannis. We learn that through Walder Frey (who spoke with him about it) and Maester Colemon (in the Eyrie). But then he (Jon) died, and Lysa fled to the Eyrie with their son. After that, Tywin offered to foster him in Casterly Rock, but Lysa refused the offer. That's what Robert Baratheon told Ned. Both olans existed, though one was Jon's plan, when he was alive, and the other one was Tywin's, after Lord Arryn's death.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jon Arryn was planning to foster Robert in Dragonstone with Stannis. We learn that through Walder Frey (who spoke with him about it) and Maester Colemon (in the Eyrie). But then he (Jon) died, and Lysa fled to the Eyrie with their son. After that, Tywin offered to foster him in Casterly Rock, but Lysa refused the offer. That's what Robert Baratheon told Ned. Both olans existed, though one was Jon's plan, when he was alive, and the other one was Tywin's, after Lord Arryn's death.

Yes, but we fail to grasp the significant of this. It occurred several times in the book as if paving for a future twist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My guess is that, Stannis was Jon Aryn's idea while Tywin was Robert's. Jon and Stannis seemed pretty close, riding out to find Robert's bastards together and all that.

Yeah, this isn't even a guess it's the truth. people say that jon aryn wanted to send him to stannis. robert himself says he wanted to send him to tywin. pretty simple

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lysa is paranoid, so take anything she says with a grain of salt.

Most people were in agreement he was to go to Stannis. (Jon Arryn knew Stannis would make him man up fast)

TBH I don't think it matters, Stannis or Tywin, she just did not want her little precious spoiled boy leaving her side.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

here is how I understand this situation:

Jon Arryn and Stannis investigate Robert's bastards. They are obviously very close, and both anti-Lannister. As they close in on the truth (probably as they see Gendry) they realize that Stannis is the heir and that bringing out the truth will likely lead to war with the Lannisters. They agree on an alliance, to be sealed with an exchange of hostages, so Jon plans to have Robert fostered at Dragonstone. They probably don't tell king Bob any of this, just as theNed didn't want to bring the incest to his attention until he had final and irrefutable proof.

Lysa hears about the plans to send Robert away and panics. Remember she even threatens to kill her sister when Catelyn suggests to take Robert to Winterfell. Lysa goes to Littlefinger and he gives her the idea to poison Jon Arryn, which she does.

Jon dies, and Stannis retreats to Dragonstone, as his life is clearly in danger in Kings Landing. King (and uncle) Bob becomes little Robert's legal guardian. Cersei, aware of what Jon and Stannis had been investigating, works her magic on the king to have him foster little Robert at Casterly Rock, making him a hostage and neutralizing Lysa as a threat, if she indeed knew anything about Jon's investigations. Lysa again hears about plans to give little Robert away, and since she can't very well kill the king too, flees to the Eyrie with her son.

I actually think this riddle is all but resolved in the text, at least as much as we can expect from the mystery-fest that is ASOIAF.

edit: added spoilers, didn't see this is the still reading section

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

here is how I understand this situation:

Jon Arryn and Stannis investigate Robert's bastards. They are obviously very close, and both anti-Lannister. As they close in on the truth (probably as they see Gendry) they realize that Stannis is the heir and that bringing out the truth will likely lead to war with the Lannisters. They agree on an alliance, to be sealed with an exchange of hostages, so Jon plans to have Robert fostered at Dragonstone. They probably don't tell king Bob any of this, just as theNed didn't want to bring the incest to his attention until he had final and irrefutable proof.

Lysa hears about the plans to send Robert away and panics. Remember she even threatens to kill her sister when Catelyn suggests to take Robert to Winterfell. Lysa goes to Littlefinger and he gives her the idea to poison Jon Arryn, which she does.

Jon dies, and Stannis retreats to Dragonstone, as his life is clearly in danger in Kings Landing. King (and uncle) Bob becomes little Robert's legal guardian. Cersei, aware of what Jon and Stannis had been investigating, works her magic on the king to have him foster little Robert at Casterly Rock, making him a hostage and neutralizing Lysa as a threat, if she indeed knew anything about Jon's investigations. Lysa again hears about plans to give little Robert away, and since she can't very well kill the king too, flees to the Eyrie with her son.

I actually think this riddle is all but resolved in the text, at least as much as we can expect from the mystery-fest that is ASOIAF.

DUDE! Huge spoilers in this. This is the still reading section.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Am i the only one who took Jon Arryn's *The Seed is Strong* to mean that he had planted suspicions and clues etc as to the secret of Joff's birth? With the seed of doubt strong enough to lead Ned to the truth. Does that even make sense? it did in my head hehe.

That makes sense in general, but based on the rough outlines that we've gotten from other characters at this point Jon Arryn seems like a curt, coarse, blunt kind of person. I don't see him using obtuse metaphors like that; he would try to say what he meant as clearly as possible, especially since he knows that the people he's most likely to reach out to (Ned Stark and King Robert) are not especially gifted in the arena of teasing apart riddles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.