How did Rhaegar kidnap Lyanna in the first place?

[Lady Hodor]

(This is presuming Lyanna went without consent and was in fact taken against her will.)

If my memory serves correctly, we are never told of the circumstances of Lyanna's disapearance.

We simply hear that she was kidnapped, not how, when, where, or by who (Rhaegar must have had help).

How could he have kidnapped a High Lord's daughter so easily?

Where was she? Winterfell? King's Landing? Either way, it shouldnt have been easy to take her.

Where the hell were her guards when he came? How did they get her away without someone noticing?

If Lyanna was in fact like Arya, she wouldnt have gone without a fight. Was there no evidence of it all?

Any theories? Contradictions? Evidence?

[Ame]

There would have been a fierce battle and Lyanna would have been wounded because she would have fought in it if kidnapped, but such a thing would have a prominent role in Eddard Stark's memories of the incident so I think "kidnapping" meant she jumped on his horse willingly after sneaking away from her guards.You are correct Stark's do guard their children well, and Lyanna was skilled with the sword according to Ned.

[Sarnius]

ALSO;

Disregarding R+L.

You're welcome.

[Lady Hodor]

@ Sarnius

I did say this is a theory concerning the idea that there is no R + L

I know that it is a possibility, a likely possibility, I was merely exploring the opposite option.

[Lykos]

Here is a plausible scenario by Ran.

I don't believe that Rhaegar went to Winterfell. I believe Lyanna was already in the south. My speculation has been that she remained at Harrenhal as a guest of the wealthy, powerful Whents (and their maiden daughter, for whom the tournament was thrown), and would reside there a time until her brother Brandon and the wedding party for Riverrun came down.

This could then explain the sequence of events. We know Ned and Robert were in the Vale when all the bad stuff was happening. We know Brandon had Lord Arryn's heir and a Royce in his company. So it's something like this, very loosely:

* Harrenhal. Rickard is at Winterfell, his children are at Harrenhal.

* Ned and Robert go to the Vale, Brandon and Benjen go to Riverrun, Rhaegar goes to King's Landing, Lyanna stays.

* Duel with Littlefinger, BRandon says he'll return "soon". Takes off for Seagard to take a ship up to get him close to Winterfell.

* Wedding party departs Winterfell, making for White Harbor. Benjen remains behind as the Stark in Winterfell. We're told Rickard took two hundred swords with him -- this is a guard of honor escorting the lot.

* Arrival at the Vale, where they pick up Ned, Elbert Arryn, Kyle Royce.

* At some point, Brandon and his companions decide to ride ahead of the main column to get to Harrenhal and hang out with Lyanna before she joins the main party.... and they discover she's gone, because Rhaegar's come back up from the south to sneak her away... possibly with the aid of Oswell Whent.

* Rather than racing back to his father and co., Brandon in a fury rides hard for King's Landing with his friends.

This is, as I said, speculative. But I think it best fits the facts. Possibly she was located somewhere other than Harrenhal, but I'm pretty certain she was not in the North, in any case, when Rhaegar made off with her.

Another Scenario has Lyanna touring the South, so that she gets to know the important houses befor she marries Robert.

[Ygrain]

Dany thinks somewhere that Lyanna was taken at swordpoint, but doesn't mention the source.

[Hear Us Roar]

Stealth. All it would take is a few men who could take her at the right time and place.

[Slurms McKenzie]

With a bag and some chloroform :pirate:

[Buckwheat]

I thought Lyanna was in KL at court at the time, Rhaegar kidnapped her from there (from the other tower or something). It may have involved secret passages of which we know there are a lot in the castle and leading out of it.

[Teal'c]

I think he put rohypnol in her mead.

[Slurms McKenzie]

I think he put rohypnol in her mead.

................Then what? :pirate:

[Fire Eater]

I think Lyanna was staying at Harrenhal with the Whents as a ward. Rhaegar came up to her, and she rode off with him.

[Silmarien]

Dany thinks somewhere that Lyanna was taken at swordpoint, but doesn't mention the source.

Her source was Viserys. Who else?

ETA: ie, unreliable! We have no evidence she was taken at swordpoint, only Viserys's word. So this whole thread is based on some unreliable evidence, to say the least, that Lyanna was taken at "swordpoint".

Of course everybody would believe she was kidnapped, because she was a highborn maid and no one would have thought she went willingly since she was betrothed to Robert. At least, no one who didn't know her character/personality well. Like Ned - he likely knew she wasn't kidnapped. Benjen too.

Brandon, well, I don't think he cared really, he just cared that his family's "honor" had been diminished - or maybe he thought Aerys and Rhaegar were taking a captive/hostage. But flying to KL on horseback (not literally) and calling Rhaegar out to die was the dumbest thing he ever did in his life.

Brandon isn't shown as such a nice guy, after all. He repeatedly slept with Lady Barbery Ryswell (before she was a Dustin), knowing he would never marry her. He took her maidenhead.

Brandon might've knocked up poor Ashara Dayne, also a maiden. Also, he decided to cut 12 year old Petyr Baelish badly enough to leave scars, when he knew it wasn't a fair fight - he was at least 18-19.

Not very honorable, eh? Out of all the Starks, Brandon is painted as the least honorable, yet he cries with outrage after Lyanna is "kidnapped"? Hypocrite.

Of all the Starks, Brandon (Ned's bro) is my least favorite. He sounds like a callous jackass.

[The Imp With A Pimp Limp]

Her source was Viserys. Who else?

ETA: ie, unreliable! We have no evidence she was taken at swordpoint, only Viserys's word. So this whole thread is based on some unreliable evidence, to say the least, that Lyanna was taken at "swordpoint".

Of course everybody would believe she was kidnapped, because she was a highborn maid and no one would have thought she went willingly since she was betrothed to Robert. At least, no one who didn't know her character/personality well. Like Ned - he likely knew she wasn't kidnapped. Benjen too.

Brandon, well, I don't think he cared really, he just cared that his family's "honor" had been diminished - or maybe he thought Aerys and Rhaegar were taking a captive/hostage. But flying to KL on horseback (not literally) and calling Rhaegar out to die was the dumbest thing he ever did in his life.

Brandon isn't shown as such a nice guy, after all. He repeatedly slept with Lady Barbery Ryswell (before she was a Dustin), knowing he would never marry her. He took her maidenhead.

Brandon might've knocked up poor Ashara Dayne, also a maiden. Also, he decided to cut 12 year old Petyr Baelish badly enough to leave scars, when he knew it wasn't a fair fight - he was at least 18-19.

Not very honorable, eh? Out of all the Starks, Brandon is painted as the least honorable, yet he cries with outrage after Lyanna is "kidnapped"? Hypocrite.

Of all the Starks, Brandon (Ned's bro) is my least favorite. He sounds like a callous jackass.

Baelish was 15, and he asked to fight for Cat's hand, Brandon spared his life when he every right to kill him. And look how that ended up for future Starks.

I like the idea that Lyanna was at KL, that supports the theory that maybe it wasn't a kidnapping. I just don't want to believe that Raeghar would've done something like that

[Ygrain]

Her source was Viserys. Who else?

ETA: ie, unreliable! We have no evidence she was taken at swordpoint, only Viserys's word. So this whole thread is based on some unreliable evidence, to say the least, that Lyanna was taken at "swordpoint".

Of course everybody would believe she was kidnapped, because she was a highborn maid and no one would have thought she went willingly since she was betrothed to Robert. At least, no one who didn't know her character/personality well. Like Ned - he likely knew she wasn't kidnapped. Benjen too.

Brandon, well, I don't think he cared really, he just cared that his family's "honor" had been diminished - or maybe he thought Aerys and Rhaegar were taking a captive/hostage. But flying to KL on horseback (not literally) and calling Rhaegar out to die was the dumbest thing he ever did in his life.

Brandon isn't shown as such a nice guy, after all. He repeatedly slept with Lady Barbery Ryswell (before she was a Dustin), knowing he would never marry her. He took her maidenhead.

Brandon might've knocked up poor Ashara Dayne, also a maiden. Also, he decided to cut 12 year old Petyr Baelish badly enough to leave scars, when he knew it wasn't a fair fight - he was at least 18-19.

Not very honorable, eh? Out of all the Starks, Brandon is painted as the least honorable, yet he cries with outrage after Lyanna is "kidnapped"? Hypocrite.

Of all the Starks, Brandon (Ned's bro) is my least favorite. He sounds like a callous jackass.

I don't like Brandon much, either.

I just can't stop wondering if "Come out and die!" instead of "Return my sister at once!" is supposed to hint that he thought Rhaegar a seducer, not a kidnapper.

And I wonder what Viserys heard and where; he was a little boy when it happened, after all.

One more curious thing: Dany knows that Rhaegar supposedly died for the woman he loved, yet doesn't find it strange that he took her at swordpoint?

[Twookus Stark]

I dont think its hypocritical to try and protect your sister just because you've had sex before.

[snax]

By kidnapping her heart.

If he wanted to, he probably could've stolen her away against her wishes with a few knights at his command. I really hope this doesn't turn into a Stockholme Syndrome situation where he kidnaps her and she ends up falling for him. Yuck.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

It does make a lot of sense that Lyanna was at Harrenhal when she was "taken." That would also explain why Oswell Whent was one of the three Kingsguard members at the Tower of Joy, if he used his knowledge of the castle and/or his family ties to aid Rhaegar in his "abduction." Hightower (Lord Commander) and especially Dayne (Rhaegar's best friend) being there both make sense but up to this point, Whent's been sort of "filler." If Harrenhal is revealed to be "ground zero," as it were, Whent's participation makes a lot more sense.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

(This is presuming Lyanna went without consent and was in fact taken against her will.)

If my memory serves correctly, we are never told of the circumstances of Lyanna's disapearance.

We simply hear that she was kidnapped, not how, when, where, or by who (Rhaegar must have had help).

How could he have kidnapped a High Lord's daughter so easily?

Where was she? Winterfell? King's Landing? Either way, it shouldnt have been easy to take her.

Where the hell were her guards when he came? How did they get her away without someone noticing?

If Lyanna was in fact like Arya, she wouldnt have gone without a fight. Was there no evidence of it all?

Any theories? Contradictions? Evidence?

she went with him voluntarily after Howland Reed told her had to give birth to the prince who was promised.

[corbon]

I dont think its hypocritical to try and protect your sister just because you've had sex before.

Brandon didn't mention his sister, so protecting her doesn't seem to have been on his mind really.

What might be considered hypocritical is being perfectly happy taking a young noblewoman's maidenhead but having a hissy fit when you think someone had done the same to your sister.