Sansa and Tyrion predictions

[Natalie_S]

(I've always assumed it was the lack of parental consent in the Tyrion/Tysha case that provided the excuse Tywin needed.)

Oh, I see your point now!

I thought it was the fact that the Septon was drunk and therefore the blessing wasn't valid. :)

I guess we should ask GRRM.

[Woman of War]

@Mormont,

This is of course not about the legal value about any marriage which imo will depend on where the power is and, of course, of the willingness of the two concerned to make use of the possibility to end a marriage or precisely not.

But on the question of right or wrong I do not care if a marriage can be called arranged or forced, this is imo wordplay.

What counts for me:

Are bride and bridegroom fully willing to marry their potential partner out of free choice?

Do they have the alternative to say "no" without any pressure exercised by anyone?

Do they have the choice to choose someone else if they wish without being excluded from society?

Do they have the choice to refuse to marry at all without ending in poverty?

Any situation where these conditions are not fulfilled is coerxion to me and I do not care if anyone calls this "forced" or "arranged", it is simply wrong.

This may be an overly modern idea for Westeros but since many posters always expect us to apply our modern morality here I am doing exactly this.

The system of marriage is Martinworld is especially for noblewomen thoroughly wrong, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less wrong but there is no way to belittle this.

[mormont]

WoW: I agree with the moral point, absolutely. Any marriage that is against the will of the participants, or for that matter where the participants aren't old enough to consent for themselves, is morally wrong without a doubt. I'd be worried if anybody disagreed with that.

However, my point was that there is a substantial distinction in a Westerosi context between the Sansa/Tyrion marriage and most other 'arranged' marriages. It's a good thing that there is, in my view, since it offers a chance for that marriage to be annulled, so long as the Lannisters lose. And it's worth noting in discussion, I think, because it might be that characters in the story who would regard other forced marriages as legitimate might not do so with this one. But does it make any difference to the way I look on it morally as a modern reader? Not really.