Why is everybody son intrigued by the crypts of winterfell?

[Fire Eater]

That was him talking about burning his family and accusing Jon of having the same dreams. I don't recall Jon ever dreaming of dragons, though.

Not his entire family, just Tywin and Cersei. Jon dreamed of battling Others, Lightbringer and the crypts of Winterfell but not dragons as you said. In the Others' battle dream he was armored in black ice, fitting as he said "Black was always my color," and not just because he;s a member of the Night's Watch.

[Faint]

Not his entire family, just Tywin and Cersei. Jon dreamed of battling Others, Lightbringer and the crypts of Winterfell but not dragons as you said. In the Others' battle dream he was armored in black ice, fitting as he said "Black was always my color," and not just because he;s a member of the Night's Watch.

The implication was that Jon actually has had dreams of dragons, in light of his reaction to Tyrion's claim of the same, only, we've never been privy to them.

I don't necessarily believe that's the case but, then again, I can see why GRRM would make the issue as opaque as possible. If it was established that Jon had dragon dreams, not only would that make his Targaryen heritage more dead certain than it already is (which takes some doing given all the evidence it has going for it), it would serve as confirmation that Tyrion is a Targaryen as well.

[Howling Mad]

I believe it might be more than one thing. My guesses are really not fleshed out though. The first thing being something for Jon, maybe prooving his origns and the second being secret passages to... somwhere :blush:

As I said in a different thread "more than one thing can be true".

IMO the crypts have a connection with the concept that "there must always be a Stark in Winterfell". The heresey threads in ADWD forum have lots of therioes and information on this subject.

[COYStars]

There may well be more to the crypts that is important to the story.

There's an alternative theory, which is that the crypts represent Winterfell - the heart and soul of it - and the Starks in Winterfell after it's been captured, destroyed etc. There is no Stark in Winterfell but you have the feeling that it is still Winterfell-in-waiting because the crypts provide the link. And it won't take much for everything to come back to normal when Rickon or Sansa return, because Winterfell was always theirs because of the link provided by the crypts.

Otherwise, it's just a castle which has changed hands. It has a soul and an identity that Riverrun or the Eyrie don't have.

[teemo]

I think it's because it's creepy, kind of famous, and interesting.

[alienarea]

Someone has to enter the numbers and push the button.

[carmela28]

There's an alternative theory, which is that the crypts represent Winterfell - the heart and soul of it - and the Starks in Winterfell after it's been captured, destroyed etc. There is no Stark in Winterfell but you have the feeling that it is still Winterfell-in-waiting because the crypts provide the link. And it won't take much for everything to come back to normal when Rickon or Sansa return, because Winterfell was always theirs because of the link provided by the crypts.

Otherwise, it's just a castle which has changed hands. It has a soul and an identity that Riverrun or the Eyrie don't have.

Love this theory, COYStars.

To my way of thinking, it is the crypts that keep the Starks "alive." With everything else of Winterfell destroyed, the crypts can continue to provide them with their sense of family and identity.

But I think that there is more than just symbolism in those crypts. Something or someone is there that is crucial to the story. It has been mentioned too many times for it to be unimportant.

[Lord Barristan]

You know I think Roose Bolton is after whatever is in the crypts as well... That is why he went to Winterfell instead of staying in Barrowtown or going back to his own castle, the dreadfort... This could be why he is going thought the whole mummers farce of the fake Arya- he knew he would never be allowed by the umbers, Manderlys, and other stark loyalists to occupy the castle without one of Ned's daughters... He needed a chance to take the castle and look for what he wants.

I read another thread on here that discussed how roose may be into some sort of sorcery- ie his relationship with leaches and qyburn- so I think he may know some legend and wants what is in the crypts. We know lady Dustin and Roose are close... I think she made theon show her the crypts for Roose, not for her own benefit... Roose himself was too busy dealing with the Freys and Manderlys to go himself... And he didn't want them being suspicious

Mance was also after the crypts and I wouldn't be surprised if he were actually hiding down there instead of being captive by Ramsay. Ramsay I think will be sent out to face stannis just like the Freys were and it won't matter to Roose if he dies if he can get what he's looking for down there

[WWCED]

.

Jon states to Sam he keeps having a dream in AGoT, where he is wandering alone through Winterfell with the crypt looking for someone but he doesn't know who. He runs to find himself at the front door to the crypts. He's afraid of what is waiting for him down there. He screams that he is not a Stark, that it isn't his place, but it is no good and he feels he has to go down, so he starts, with no torch to light his way. It gets darker and darker, until he wants to scream, and then he wakes up.

Crypts are places of death - cold, dark and decayed. To Jon, the crypts of Winterfell would be the physical manifestation of death that he is most familiar with, so he would associate crypts with death.

But he has to go into the crypts (die)" to find the person he is looking for. This person, IMO, is himself. There is a journey of self discovery that he must go on, and death seems to be the only way for him to find out the answer.

Curiously, Jon says he feels he has to go down, and if he is not a Stark why would he feel this way? So deep down, he must KNOW that he is Stark, not Snow.

He goes down with no torch (guide) and it gets darker and darker until he wants to scream. Maybe he finds answers that he is horrified by? If so what are they?

Targaryen heritage maybe? He must become like the Night's King? He dies alone and betrayed by his Brothers?

This is probably a foreshadowing of what he undergoes after his "death" at the Wall. I think the probability of Jon surviving is 100%, but what of his psyche? He will come out of this experience a much different person. This is the boy dying, the man inside will be revealed.

What Would Crow's Eye Do?

[jblair]

I think the Starks and the Others are related and the crypts somehow hold that information. At the very least, they hint to the fact that the Stark family wasn't always particularly nice and the swords poised above the crypts seem to serve the purpose of keeping dead Starks where they lie. They're also a very old and magical family, and the words "Winter is Coming" seems like more of a threat than a warning to me.

My personal crackpot theory is that Others are dead Starks. We've mostly seen wights with only a few Others so it's possible that these Others are Stark ancestors who've been dormant since the last big winter. Coldhands could be Benjen (since he's relatively "fresh" he still retains some of his memory and humanity, this explains why he hides his face and why he seeks out Bran). Wights are made by some sort of crazy undead Stark magic (sort of like how vampires are made?) or perhaps controlled by the Others (since Starks are also wargs/skinchangers).

Anyway. I think that now that Winterfell's been overtaken (I think the urgency of always having a Stark in Winterfell is because its the Stark family duty to protect the realm from their ancestors) there's a good possibility that the things down in the crypt may be let out.

So. There's my crazy theory. I've heard a lot of remarks about the Others being another race as well, so it's possible that the Starks have descended from Others and humans? And that's why the older statues in the crypts seem crueler (because they're less human)? IDK.

I love this crackpot. Need to chew this over for a bit.

[fatmike705]

I love this crackpot. Need to chew this over for a bit.

Me too i was thinking the same thing

[Pope Killdragon]

Mance was looking for the Horn of Joramun maybe. I personally think that the grestsword Dawn in down there.

[roxWolfox]

Originally I thought it had to do with Lyanna, but I believe the Horn of Winter is down there. Mance needs to find it to bargain with the NW or with Westeros.

[Yukle]

Until yesterday when I saw some threads about this topic, I'd never really considered it. There are two main theories that I've read that seem to crop up, and each has its merits.

THEORY 1:

Torrhen's Crown

This one is really beautiful for its symbolism, as it completely changes part of how we'd read the Stark's honour. Although Torrhen bent the knee to Aegon, and almost certainly handed over a sword that was melted into the Iron Throne, there's no certainty that he wore his crown into battle. Certainly, if he was anything like Rhaegar or Robert, he'd have worn a full-faced helm, perhaps with some simple decorations on it.

The Starks' crown was a simple piece of wrought metal unlike anything worn by the Southern Kings. It makes sense given how long the Kings of Winter were ruling; while it's unlikely that they had the same crown all 8,000 years, they probably had as few as possible. It seems that the Starks enjoyed practicality more than lavishness, as Winterfell can attest to.

So it Torrhen never surrendered his crown, it shows that he was more forward-thinking than it seems at first. To have been the first Stark king who failed to preserve his kingdom to an invasion would have been a wound to his pride, no matter how humble he was. The Stark words are that "Winter is Coming," though, so perhaps he expected that Aegon's dynasty wouldn't hide forever. He may have hidden his crown deep within the "haunted" crypts of Winterfell, waiting for the Kings of Winter to take the North once more.

This certainly explains one reason that the story keeps returning to the crypts. This theory has more value to the readers than to the characters, though, as it alters the thematic landscape without significantly changing the plot.

THEORY 2:

The Horn of Winter

This theory is less convincing to me. I think that there's no issue with the Horn of Winter being the one that burnt with Rattleshirt or being the simple, silent horn that Sam took with him to Oldtown. In which case, here's hoping that he has the sense to destroy it.

However, it's possible that the Horn lies within the crypts, I suppose. It would seem odd that the Starks would ever preserve such an artefact and yet not destroy it. There woud be no reason for them to ever want the Wall to fall. That said, the Horn may be there against the knowledge of the Starks. Or perhaps it was hidden there by a Stark whose intentions are unclear and didn't tell the rest of Winterfell.

It would make drastic changes to the plot if the Horn of Winter was found under Winterfell, especially if Roose was to use it as a final joker up his sleeve to blackmail Stannis into retreating. However, I think this sort of plot is unlikely.

ETA: Just to clarify, if there's anything beneath Winterfell, I'd go with Torrhen's crown.

[jons nissa]

because thar be good stuff down thar! stuff that will probably show that lyanna was not abducted by rhaegar. stuff that might show how to stop the others and white walkers. and other stuff. can't wait til we see more of it.

[sertravisredbeard]

Off the top of my head a reason for this fascination is the fact that the Winterfell crypts serve as the setting for a few different main characters to learn/or reminisce about the history of the world. Starting with Ned, then continuing with Bran, Jon and Theon, the crypts provide the readers some interesting marriage about the Starks. The mysticism surrounding them stems from this.

[Ibbison from Ibben]

There's been lots of threads covering this, so to review-

1) Anything that was in the ToJ with Lyanna when she died would have been taken by Ned, and may be in Lyanna's crypt along with her bones. This could include any or all of the following: a letter from Lyanna to Jon, a dragon egg, the Valyrian steel sword Dark Sister, Rhaegar's harp, Rhaegar's spare set of false teeth, etc... Feel free to add your own ideas. It's all speculation, of course.

2) Bran mentions in aGoT that the crypts are longer than Winterfell itself (they extend beyond the outer walls). Yep, there's a backdoor tunnel. This was actually confirmed in ep 210 of the TV show, when Maester Luwin told Theon there were secret tunnels he could escape through. In all likelihood, the whole point of Lady Dustin's performance in aDwD was not to go stare at some statues in the crypts, but to make sure the crypt door was unburied and free to open. We can expect an attacking force to enter through the crypts to help retake Winterfell. Who would know about it? Howland Reed, of course.

3) There's probably something magical about the whole crypt, connected with graves, dead Starks, and iron swords to keep them there.

edited for spelling

[locke and key]

theres a theory I heard that BR placed the dragon's egg from whitewalls there when he stopped in WF on his way to the wall dunno if that helps

[King of Winters]

I think the reason is because there is something important down there to do with R+L=J.

I like the theory that Torrhen's crown is in Lyanna's tomb and that Rhaegar gave the crown to Lyanna, since his family has had it since The Conquest, and it would show people that Rhaegar and Lyanna were in love and that she went willingly with him, and it's also a clue to R+L=J. She could also have a Targ cloak from her marriage with him.

[Northbound]

I'm of the mind, that information regarding Jon's actually parents are in the tombs. Be it Torrhen's crown, Targ cloak, a certain sword, sealed letter from members of house Dayne....something is in Lyanna's crypt. Jon's dreams about the tombs; is also a big indication, that something is important about them.