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[Book Spoilers] Ep 202 Discussion

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Why say 'not to be vulgar' when you've been nothing but?

People, yes, there are explicit sex scenes. That's no excuse for talking about them as if you were eleven years old and just discovered your older brother's porn magazine collection. Class it up a bit, please, or posts will be deleted. Take that as an official mod warning.

Apologies, but I'm not sure of any other way I could've gotten the point across. Re: the "in the bowels of the boat" scene, I was trying to point out that the corresponding scene in the book is actually *MORE* graphic (and gross) than what the show gave us, not less; I guess I went too far with the imagery. And, as for the comment that drew the warning above, I suppose I could've used clinical terms, I guess. Otherwise, I'm not sure how else to've said it.

Anyway, my apologies to the community.

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No, I don't think you are. Stannis is supposed to be strong and steely, not brooding and sulky as he has been portrayed so far. He believes in himself, his military abilities, and his right to the throne. In the show he seems to only believe in Mel, which makes him appear to be of weaker character than I would liked to have seen.

I agree on most, except for the sulkiness comment. He sulks, more or less, constantly about everyone loving Robert and Renly but not him. He says something at one point like Robert could urinate in a drinking vessel and men would call it a fermented grape beverage, but I give them clear, cold water and they mutter to themselves about how strange it tastes.

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I've getting really sick of all the gratuitous sex scenes/sexposition. I personally don't mind, but I think it's kind of giving the show a bad name to some people and taken less seriously. My boyfriend refers to it as a "medieval soap opera" with over-the-top, ridiculous sexual gratuity. I'll say anything to try to convince him to like it more, such as - "there's tons a lesbian scenes!" and he kind of had the same response someone else on here did. "Why would I want to watch a series of a show for some sex scenes???" :bang:

Thank you for so eloquently saying what I've been trying to but couldn't quite get the words right :drunk:

I understand that there is a lot of sex in the books. A lot of that sex also helps us readers really understand certain characters as well (ie. Jaime and Cersei for one). I also understand that the show is on HBO. I'm cool with risque stuff. I'm a HUGE True Blood fangirl. I'm also a fan of Boardwalk Empire. My favorite TV show of ALL TIME is Sex and the City. HBO rocks because they don't have to deal with the censorship that other TV networks have to.

That being said, it is my opinion (just my opinion!- don't yell at me!) that a lot of the sex scenes are overshadowing other very important events and plot lines. When I was at home visiting my parents for Easter last week, I watched "The Night Lands" at their house just because that's where I happened to beat that time. Needless to say there were lots of super awkward moments with my mom sitting next to me!

Idk...I'm only 25 and I teach high school. Maybe having to yell at those dang kids for talking about inappropriate stuff has pushed me into premature prudish-ness!

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That being said, it is my opinion (just my opinion!- don't yell at me!) that a lot of the sex scenes are overshadowing other very important events and plot lines.

Yes! Thank you. I don't have a problem with sex scenes as long as they don't steal too much screen time from other events and characters that I find a lot more interesting.

For example, they could have thrown in some random additional drama at Dothraki, have some members of the tribe rebel and fight with Daenerys...or they could have shown Joffrey molesting more random innocent people...or show night walkers slaughtering someone in the forest (that was one of the best scenes in Season 1)...or more scenes with Bran, I think they are treating Bran too superficially in this season and giving him less scenes than he deserves...anyway, I can think of at least 10 decent things they could have done with the characters.

They throw it all away to set a world record in a number of sex scenes in one episode? I think it's a wrong move. Everyone knows what whores look like and what they do. It doesn't add anything to the plot, One or two tastefully done sex scenes per episode is enough to attract certain targeted audience. Doesn't matter if the books are loaded with sex, the show should adjust to response of the audience to Season 1 which was amazing and I think everyone will agree. Season 1 had a perfect amount of sex scenes and they were much more tastefully done. Anything more than that is too much and it crosses the line between art and pornography.

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The sex scenes are strange for me. I feel uncomfortable sometimes watching them, and I usually don't mind sex scenes in programs. I love this show though, I love everything about it. The actors they have chosen, the sets, the world they have materialized.

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It's not about what is okay to show and what is not, it's about what is relevant to the plot and/or character development and what is not.

Case in point:

-Theon banging the captain's daughter like she's an animal: relevant to Theon's characterization. He treats women like garbage, he values his cock over anything else, he's dangerously proud, etc. Could the same thing be accomplished without titties ? Maybe, but in this case it's not too distracting.

-Littlefinger wiping cum off a whore's mouth: not relevant to ANYTHING. It just makes me picture a room full of pimple-ridden geeky writers wearing stained shirts snorting like pubescent boys when one of them suggests the idea. It does not make the show "adult" or "edgy", but rather the exact opposite ie. childish and mundane.

As for the show having lots of sex just because the books have lots of sex, that's a moot point. On screen sex (or violence for that matter) is not the same as written sex (or violence) and the sex scenes in the show are not half as graphic as their book counterparts, for a good reason: there's a huge difference between reading about Drogo's manhood "glistening wetly" and having a close up of a tumescent and shiny penis dripping with cum on screen. I don't care much for the former but I care even less for the latter, and I'm sure lots of people would echo that sentiment.

I'm not prude by any stretch of imagination, but if I want to see porn, I watch porn.

Edited by The Lost Direwolf

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It's not about what is okay to show and what is not, it's about what is relevant to the plot and/or character development and what is not.

Case in point:

-Theon banging the captain's daughter like she's an animal: relevant to Theon's characterization. He treats women like garbage, he values his cock over anything else, he's dangerously proud, etc. Could the same thing be accomplished without titties ? Maybe, but in this case it's not too distracting.

Thing about Theon is this is knowledge we already know, plot advancement , zero, episode time wasted.

The deal between Asha and Theon is more subtle and should have been more elaborated, she was using her guile and Alpha Femaleness to gain valuable information for father and herself, Theon is the rightful heir... but proves not worthy of the Seastone Chair. Which by the way Asha also wants, but that's another story.

Edited by boojam

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Well put, Lost, what I mean as the HBO! moments are the ones which are just pointless sex (or other "taboos") which HBO seems compelled to add to their shows now that cable networks are challenging their territory for serious high-quality drama.

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i just want to toss out that the whore who had cum wiped from her mouth is the same one that Ros is with when we have little fingers classic "play with her ass" line.

in season one Ros is kind of this hot shit awesome whore, and this other girl is kind of, lesser in a way. then in season 2, ros is crying, and the other one is just blowing through guys(pun intended).

its a weird reversal of fortunes, and something i'm sure only i noticed.

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Asha was ok, I wasn't really taken in by the actor but they didn't keep the whole scene. Balon kinda reffered to her and she made a joke about Theon's garb, and earlier on horseback, she just kinda let Theon play with her while he brags. She didn't come off as a swaggering, confident type - wishing she had been born a man like Cersei, but she really didn't leave an impression. I'm a little miffed about the cliffhanger and I don't understand it. How hard would it have been for Gilly to have said, "he gives our sons to the Gods?" Leaving it a mystery to the viewer as to exactly what that means. If someone can explain this decision to me, please do.

I'm not a purist by any stretch, changes for expediency, or because of budget limitation or time constraints is fine. But that ticked me off. Where is Patchface? Where is this dynamic between Queen's Men and King's Men? Where are the Reeds? I'm not upset about the damphair because he can be omitted without any great loss untill the events of the 4th book. I think this is the start of some serious deviation. Not that's necessarily a bad thing. I remember an interview with the showrunners that said each season won't so much tell the story of the book, but when it's viewed as a whole, will tell the story of "ASOIAF." Which I'm fine with.

I think damphair shows up later, I saw Theon getting baptized by him in a "next episode" thing.

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I think damphair shows up later, I saw Theon getting baptized by him in a "next episode" thing.

Damphair has not been cast. That was just an unnamed priest of the Drowned God, though the dude did have a certain presence.

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Should they even cast Damphair? Other characters deserving screen time have been left out (Blackfish, Jojen, Meera, Ramsay? etc.) Why bother with him when an undeveloped drowned priest can do his part. Save the casting for Victarion and Euron.

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Should they even cast Damphair? Other characters deserving screen time have been left out (Blackfish, Jojen, Meera, Ramsay? etc.) Why bother with him when an undeveloped drowned priest can do his part. Save the casting for Victarion and Euron.

Unless GRRM has shared with D&D that he'll be important in the future, I'd say he's out. If so, they'll introduce him when and if he's important. He's been a pretty minor character thus far in the books.

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I guess we could just pretend that was Damphair, but there's really no reason for him to have an official role for him, I guess. He hasn't really done too much.

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Random Drowned Priest. Or maybe Damphair. They're leaving options open, basically.

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I guess we could just pretend that was Damphair, but there's really no reason for him to have an official role for him, I guess. He hasn't really done too much.

Quite right.

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Random Drowned Priest. Or maybe Damphair. They're leaving options open, basically.

My thoughts as well.

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Way late to this thread- watching on my iPad by logging in with a friend's HBO credentials-

Am I the only one who has always hated the Asha character in the books? I kind of like the actress because she fits how I feel about the character- she's a jerk! Why is she so damned pleased with herself all the time, and really, her sexual humiliation of Theon (who is admittedly a tool) is really uncalled for and just plain yucky. Ok. Taking a breath.

Really the whole Iron Islands plotline just slogged for me in the books and I am enjoying it much more on the show. There, I said it. Better than the books. Theon - perfect. Balon - perfect. Pyke looks absolutely amazing, and I loved the whole segment.

Stannis/Mel sex - this was always implied in the book, perfectly played. Stannis is still so rigid and brittle, but human. No reason not to show this, it gives Stannis' guilt an extra dimension when Renly dies.

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I haven't read the whole thread, so I don't know if somebody came up with this, yet.... but the scene that really struck me in this episode was the child of Craster being taken away by something...

...now what if that something was a CotF and Craster was actually a good guy? :D

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I know I'm wicked late to this party, but my husband and I wanted to wait till we had finished book 2 before we started watching the second season. I'm starting to wonder if we should have even bothered, since it's looking a lot different already. I think he still would have been surprised by the second book at this rate.

ROZ! What the fuck, man? Brendan already called it, and I bet he's right: Roz is going to be the one the Kettleblacks capture, thinking that she's Shae. It seems like anytime there's something for a side character, she gets shoehorned in. Writers, WE DON'T CARE. Her character has no depth, no backstory, and she's not that great an actress (she's not even actually crying in that scene, I mean, c'mon).

JOFFREY! He's suddenly got a brain in his head, eh? They;re making both him and Cersei a lot smarter in the show than they are in the books. Not that I think that's a bad thing, but I wonder how it will affect the rest of the story.

YARA! I actually liked her casting a lot. She's not classically beautiful, but she's got sex appeal, which I think is more important for someone who's supposed to be kind of a badass. I wish that they had kept in Theon spilling his guts to her about his family, I think that added to his humiliation, which I always enjoy.

BALON! He was perfect. 'Nuff said.

PYKE! God, it was SO PERFECT.

STANNIS FUCKS MEL?! So fucking what if the TV audience was going to be confused? You think that I WASN'T confused when she's suddenly 9 months along after having been flat-stomached only a few days earlier? And yet GRRM felt no need to explain everything and ruin the mystery. That's half the fun! Oh, well.

ANYWAYS. I think that this episode could have been a lot tighter and a lot better, and I didn't enjoy it half as much as the first one.

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