Why is there such fan love for Brynden Blackfish?

[Nausicaä]

When I read the books it seemed pretty obvious that Blackfish liked his brother's wife, not men.

...Obvious how exactly? I like this theory, but it has just as much, if not less, evidence as the "Blackfish is gay" theory.

Why do you think its her?

He makes references to Minisa once or twice. This:

"Once he called me by Mother’s name.”

“He misses her still,” Ser Brynden answered. “You have her face. I can see it in your cheekbones, and your jaw . . .”

“You remember more of her than I do. It has been a long time.”

And possibly telling Catelyn that she had her mother's eyes. I'm not the only one who remembers that quote, but I can't find it in the books, so IDK if it really exists.

That's pretty much it for the reason people think Brynden was in love with Minisa and not some other woman.

[Dracarya]

Why does the Blackfish being gay make any difference to how much fan love he gets? He probably doesn't want to get married just for the sake of being married - he never found the right woman. Or man. Or fish, if that's what he's into. Really doesn't seem a huge deal to me :dunno:

Anyway, I thought he was awesome in that scene with Jaime, and I don't blame him for acting how he did during the siege. Many have done worse, and I'm sure he did the best thing he could do at the time. He was known as a man of honour, a fighting man - calling him 'shitty' doesn't really cut it.

[HyacinthGirl]

The fan love for the Blackfish is completely justified, and there have been a ton of posts giving reasons why, but the main reason he appeals to me is that all of the Stark/Tully army have been killed, defeated or turned their cloaks: apart from Brynden. Stubborn ol' bastard. I bet he sneaked up to Greywater watch with (preggers) Jeyne and is now chilling with Howland Reed. Or something. Hey, maybe Howland is his gay lover that everyone is so convinced exists?

Brokeback Mountain Swamp, anyone?

:P

[a free shadow]

Oh well if you want to be precise about it!

Yes I suppose it is Jaime who is the active ingredient in the situation. If he had not have turned up then the pantomine would have continued until everyone had starved to death.

Not everyone. One side or the other. And at that moment all likelihood was tht Freys will go hungry.

[Bride of Winter]

I loved his AFFC dialogue with Jaime, too, although Jaime at least thought of a few snappy comebacks. Paraphrasing: "Do you even know what honor is?" "A horse."

Damn if I had horses I'd name them Honor and Glory.

Jaime's sassiness was the best part of AFFC, imo

[Frey Pie]

I don't particularly care for him, he's a bit of furniture in an interesting story and that's it.

And can you imagine that as long as the direwolf flag flew from Riverrun that it would have been left alone as the only part of mainland westeros not acknowledging King Tommen? Sure it would have been difficult and costly to reduce Riverun but it would have to have been done politically. There's no way it could have been left alone.

I agree but a piece of furniture perhaps that makes the room even more interesting

[Frey Pie]

As for the is he gay/in love with his brothers wife nobody knows. I cant really see any evidence for either. The only thing i will say is surely Cat would have mentioned it from her POV. Theres nothing so obvious as there was with Renly

[Lummel]

Not everyone. One side or the other. And at that moment all likelihood was tht Freys will go hungry.

As the last place still flying the direwolf flag in mainland westeros and therefore defying the rule of King Tommen there is no way it would have been left alone - the difficulty of supply is neither here nor there and its important how many freys die in the process.

That's the point. Unless Jeyne had been smuggled out before the siege (assuming that she was pregnant), all that the Blackfish is doing is undergoing suicide by Lannister but taking the garrison of riverun with him.

[The Imp With A Pimp Limp]

If you truly believe this, then you should read the very well put together post above yours, by Lord Littlefinger's Lash.

Everything you said is wrong, the Blackfish did withstand the seige, for how long before Jaime got there? And mean while everyday the Blackfish hold out, the Lannister/Frey army gets weaker. The Brotherhood without Banners was killing of anybody who left to get food, and on top of that people where just plain deserting. The Blackfish is not a fool, he knows the Brotherhood is out there, along with many other people who wanted the Freys dead. The Blackfish left them with no food, but he had enough food for his men, and horses for two years. Now why would the Blackfish care about having food for horses, when your locked in a castle, horses are useless for manning the walls, unless the Blackfish planned to storm out of Riverrun, and break free, just when the time is right.

The reason why nobody attacked Riverrun during that whole seige, is because the ends did not justify the means. Nobody could afford to lose that many men, storming Riverrun.

Also how did the Blackfish know that he and his people would not be slaughtered if the surrendered? You honestly think he should have trusted the Freys after the fucking Red Wedding? That is the only thing that would have made the Blackfish an "idiot".

The Blackfish knows all of this, he is not on some suicide mission to show how big his cock is or anything, and he isn't doing it for "his own selfish honor". He was actually winning, in his situation, everyday his chances got better, and his enemies got worse.

I have only pointed out a few things, like I said it would be good of you to read the pat obove yours, by Lord Littlefinger's Lash, because there post goes over everything very well, and I will be shocked if you still have this same opinion after reading their post.

And I know I am assuming you didn't read their post before making yours, but that's because I don't see how it's possible to have this opinion, after reading their post.

He can't withstand an attack to the castle, that much is obvious, and even if he manages to survive the siege he is opposing the entire realm. Sure the Lannister forces are depleted and Dorne/ the Vale are not involved, but he can't expect to survive. He might win the battle but not the war, it's as easy as that. I understand what you say about the Freys, it makes sense, but I would rather put myself and Westerling at risk than all of Riverrun. Unless she's pregnant

[a free shadow]

As the last place still flying the direwolf flag in mainland westeros and therefore defying the rule of King Tommen there is no way it would have been left alone - the difficulty of supply is neither here nor there and its important how many freys die in the process.

That's the point. Unless Jeyne had been smuggled out before the siege (assuming that she was pregnant), all that the Blackfish is doing is undergoing suicide by Lannister but taking the garrison of riverun with him.

I agree it would not have been left alone as long as Lannisters ruled. But the war was going on. There was still Stannis in the game, still powerful northern lords loyal to Starks. And even if nothing changes on that front, soon enough Freys/Lanisters would have had to cut the number of their armies camping at Riverrun drastically. Winter was coming, no food around to supply them. For that time Blackfish could have had some scheme how to smuggle some food in. Maybe not, I agree, but he must have known, say, about BwB. Maybe hatching some plan. BwB could have made raids on the remenants of Frey armies and helped with food.

Regarding the garrison. I do not think men asked him to be turned over to Lannisters. Every man has pride ans loyalties. I would rather die fighting for my freedom than serve Walder Frey. And we know Blackfish was clever enough not to keep disgruntled men. One more thing is that you can not say his garrison would have been threated fairly. Freys and Jaime were known to break every oath and vow. Freys were known to be cruel and just big shits.

[Lady Hodor]

He's one of the few followers that are not corrupt and cruel, and stands up against the authority of his older brother, and he might be gay, which to be in the medieval times was pretty brave.

[Sweet-N-SourRobin]

It's because he's defiant in the face of overwhelming, seemingly impossible odds. Sorta like why everyone likes the end of Scarface. Tony Montana is in a hopeless situation and his response is to go down fighting and spouting action movie one-liners like SAY HELLO TO MY LITTLE FRIEND before firing off a round from a grenade launcher.

Defiance/refusal to give up/daring to try to do the impossible is a classic and common trait of heroic characters in Western Literature. So when The Blackfish exhibits it, most of us tend to like him for it.

The fact that he remains loyal to the Stark cause even when its at its nadir and he has every sensible reason to pack it in, which contrasts starkly (HAHA!) with all the times people have turned on the Starks and sold them out and screwed them over even when they were going strong, is a another reason, since most readers of the series latch onto the Starks, identify with them, and have been rooting for them for most of the way.

Blackfish Tully is besieged by the enemy, his king is dead, and as far as most people know there's no one left to inherit the crown and keep up the fight. Robb is dead, Arya is missing presumed dead, Bran and Rickon are universally believed dead, Sansa's an attainted fugitive and/or a Lannister puppet, and Jon's a bastard, plus he Took The Black. Who the hell is he still flying the Stark flag for, anyway [leading many think the answer is Jeyne Westerling, who is carrying Robb Jr. in her belly after all]. Jamie even points out the apparent hopelessness of the Stark cause and the pointlessness of still holding a castle in Robb's name to Blackfish, and Blackfish's response is essentially "F you and your terms, Bring It On."

In that moment, he echoes Rambo, Rocky, Tony Montana. That's why people like him.

[Ser Pollo Loco]

Nothing wrong with holding on to the siege, as far as the Blackfish knows the game could change, its already radically changed 5 or 6 times since the books began. Hypothetically, he could know about Robbs will and be waiting to see how Jon would play it. Another possibility that he wouldn't know about but would have hypothetically happened if jamie hadn't freed Edmure is that he holds out for a year and then hears that rickon stark is still alive and the north has rallied to his side..........keeping the siege going to see if the game would change

[SerNotAppearingInTheSeries]

On second glance, he is a selfish, ruthless man; willing to watch his supposedly beloved nephew be brutally hanged for the sake of his own pride and stuborness.

Yeah, I'm not really sure about the "willing to watch his nephew hang" part. He knows that Edmure has dead guy written all over him and he doesn't have much choice in the matter. So long as a Tully heir remains, Lord Emmon's claim to Riverrun will not be secured. Also, you can't expect him to take Jaime's words. He's failed them once again (see: lack of Sansa and Arya). "I expect Edmure is as weary of standing on those gallows as I am of seeing him there." So there you go, it hurts Brynden to watch Edmure there every day. I read that part again last night, and it reminded me why I like the Blackfish more than the other Tullys. Yes, he's independent, and some might even mistake it for arrogance or stubbornness. But I rather see him as a loyal figure, fiercely protective of his family, and he keeps his words. Basically the human form of Tully words, "Family, Duty, Honor"

Just a side note though, I think Edmure's pretty cool too. I can't forget the fact that he let his smallfolk inside the walls to protect them when other lords would've said no to more mouths to feed.