~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I see alot of people that seem to have a negative opinion of Brandon, and I don't really understand why. The most common complaint about him, is his recklessness in marching to King's Landing, and demanding for Rhaegar to "Come out and die" or whatever his exact words were. But that's his family, as far as he knows his beloved sister was just kidnapped at swordpoint by the heir to the Iron Throne, a man practically untouchable. I don't know about the majority of you, but if I were a Stark, an ancient family that has been in power for 8000 years, and this upstart family, king or not, decides it's okay to steal away your own blood without your consent, I'd have done the same as Brandon. King, lord, fishermen, silent sister, doesn't matter who you are. He was known as the Wild Wolf long before Lyanna Stark was taken. He had a reputation as a bit of a bad boy and a ladie's man. He had a temper as well. I don't know that its a bad image, only that he had a wildness about him. So did Lyanna btw. Ned on the other hand was known as the Quiet Wolf. Now, how many times has your mama told you to watch out for the quiet ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Winter-ish Stuff Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Brandon Stark: The Lord Who Should Have Been. I would be so interested to see just how Brandon Stark was as a lord. From what we are given in the books, I kinda see that Brandon has more of a Stark's honor, and Ned has more Arryn/Andal honor. And we see both die when they expect to see that honor met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dragons Hand Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 How did they figure that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna is my question.Lyanna was Arya 1.0 and Rhaegar's harp brought her to tears, fearsome tomboy reputation and all. How does one think "Well, clearly he took her against her will!"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buried Treasure Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Witnesses? I envision some kind of scenario where Lyanna is accompanied by knights or guardsmen, they tell Rheagar he shouldn't ride away with the lady, he puts a hand to his sword, and they sensibly back down rather than engage in a fight with the heir to the Throne.I have no idea that it actually happened like that, but it is a fairly simple scenario that would explain how a kidnapping was reported to Brandon, with Lyanna's willingness being rather beside the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimJames Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 How did they figure that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna is my question.Lyanna was Arya 1.0 and Rhaegar's harp brought her to tears, fearsome tomboy reputation and all. How does one think "Well, clearly he took her against her will!"?Lyanna knows nothing at all about Rhaegar during the time when this kidnapping takes place. And even if she did, the fact is she and Rhaegar did not have a single thing in common (compared to Robert, with whom she has many similar interests and hobbies [and who even she acknowledged loved her]). Apart from that, running away would be not only turning her back on Robert but also on Eddard and Brandon and her father. Arya, from what we can tell, loves her family very much and as such probably wouldn't turn her backs on them to be with someone she just met. Apart from that, if Rhaegar sincerely believes the prophecy is more important than anything else than in the world, than do you really think he would accept Lyanna's choice if she refused to go with him? Probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dragons Hand Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Lyanna knows nothing at all about Rhaegar during the time when this kidnapping takes place. And even if she did, the fact is she and Rhaegar did not have a single thing in common (compared to Robert, with whom she has many similar interests and hobbies [and who even she acknowledged loved her]). Apart from that, running away would be not only turning her back on Robert but also on Eddard and Brandon and her father. Arya, from what we can tell, loves her family very much and as such probably wouldn't turn her backs on them to be with someone she just met.Apart from that, if Rhaegar sincerely believes the prophecy is more important than anything else than in the world, than do you really think he would accept Lyanna's choice if she refused to go with him? Probably not.You can almost count the number of lenses this accounting has been put through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dragons Hand Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 "Brandon wasn't shy about taking what he wanted"Yeah, that's the sentence that I find so disturbing. It's not about Barbrey not being willing, but about Brandon not particularly caring. Not going as far as using force, but taking advantage of a situation, maybe? Making a move to get under a girl's skirts, without considering the consequences for her, and it didn't turn out a rape only because Barbrey happened to be willing. That's how I read it. I viewed it in much the same way, only that if Brandon thought it was turning into a rape he would've backed off, it would have ruined the mood for him. Otherwise he was as pushy as could be, a strong pleading no would send him packing, anything less would be shrugged off. Brandon strikes me as what Ned would have been if he had been raised as the first son and heir. That highly attuned sense of honor can just as easily become arrogance and entitlement if you've been fed "Winterfell is yours by right" since birth. Ned saw power and relationships as duties he owed to others, Brandon seems to have seen what others owed to him.Indeed, Tytos is remarked upon for being weak because he was a younger sibling *Third son?* and was not raised to have a authoritative manner. Ned was a second son, but likely got more attention than Tytos and thus was in between authority and understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimJames Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 You can almost count the number of lenses this accounting has been put through.No need to be insulting. You asked why some people think Lyanna was kidnapped against her will, and I explained why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dragons Hand Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 No need to be insulting.You asked why some people think Lyanna was kidnapped against her will, and I explained why.That wasn't meant to be insulting. It means I see a number of times where you insert your personal views into the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturnianali8r Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I wouldn't have liked Brandon at all but its not his fault he was murdered. An angry brother doing something stupid is no reason to have him strangle himself to death as he watches his father burn alive. The victim blaming there is horrendous. It was all Aerys' fault because he was mentally unwell and could not use reason. I don't think there is victim blaming, because what Aerys did was truly an over-reaction and I would believe that everyone agrees on that. The only point is Brandon being rash by coming up to King's Landing in a rage. From a rational person, he probably would have been put in a dungeon for a few days at least, maybe. Rhaegar was the crown prince and it can be considered a threat to his life. However, Aerys was not rational in the least bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dragons Hand Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I don't think there is victim blaming, because what Aerys did was truly an over-reaction and I would believe that everyone agrees on that. The only point is Brandon being rash by coming up to King's Landing in a rage. From a rational person, he probably would have been put in a dungeon for a few days at least, maybe. Rhaegar was the crown prince and it can be considered a threat to his life. However, Aerys was not rational in the least bit. All of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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