R+L may not equal J?

[chris999]

IMO the most interesting outcome would be if R+J=L was true, but Jon never found out about it. His heritage would matter for the sake of the prophecy, but there's no reason he needs to know that to fulfill his destiny of saving the world for the Others. I definitely don't think he'll end up on the Iron Throne as the "true Targaryen heir" or anything like that; he might end up as King in the North, but only until one of his half-siblings (most likely Rickon) came back to claim the title for themselves.

The only problem is that I don't know how GRRM would be able to reveal Jon's heritage to the readers while keeping it secret to all the characters.

I like this.

It would be cool if Jon was the prophesized hero, but nobody ever knows it except for the reader.

[Lord Ben]

I think it'll be true but he'll stick to his vows and remain on the Nights Watch.

[GoldenFleece]

I don't know if Jon is truely dead or not.

But I disagree with people who say that Jon's dead would not benefit the plot or make any sense.

Jon dying for true could result in the destruction of the wall (which probably has magical properties to keep out the others and has to be destroyed for the others to invade) and the Black watch. What will the wildlings do? So Jon's death can serve the plot in a massive way, just like Ned's death.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I don't know if Jon is truely dead or not.

But I disagree with people who say that Jon's dead would not benefit the plot or make any sense.

Jon dying for true could result in the destruction of the wall (which probably has magical properties to keep out the others and has to be destroyed for the others to invade) and the Black watch. What will the wildlings do? So Jon's death can serve the plot in a massive way, just like Ned's death.

And whose POV at the Wall would we have to show us all of this? Melisandre's? I think not.

[DirtyRobes]

Har! while I like your idea I don't see it happening... though id love too...

Howland Reed makes his long awaited arrival to the story to reveal...

Reed - Jon, I've waited decades to tell you. You are Not the son of Lyanna Stark!

Jon - Um.... yeah? did someone tell you I was?

Reed - Ohh... well, your mum is some random fisher-woman Ned got frisky with named Wylla.

Jon - Wow, that changes a lot, thank you:)

Readers Minds Blown!!

[GoldenFleece]

And whose POV at the Wall would we have to show us all of this? Melisandre's? I think not.

Doesn't even have to have a POV, just a prologue character that gets killed havoc engulfs the wall over Jon's death. A POV comes along and the wall is in ruins, and the reader says WTF.

Jon could be AA, but so many people are expecting it, which makes me think maybe George has it planned differently - an elaborate red herring if you will. I have learnt to expect the unexpected in these books, especially concerning deaths.

I like Jon (even though I think he gets quite lucky some of the time), just like I liked Robb and Ned, but if Jon's death results in chaos and destruction of the wall, his death has served the plot and I am happy, even though I would love to see Jon battling the others.

[LmL]

Even if Jon Snow weren't R + L's son, he's still obviously not dead. Because beyond all the dozen of ways he can come back, along with the MASSIVELY-FORESHADOWED Animorphs technique, he's too important of a plot character to die against... Bowen Marsh, a nobody character on the Wall. What, are we going to spend four books following this kid and his adventures for them to end in such a stupid pointless way?

I might just started hating these books if Jon is really dead. Because who knows what crap will happen next? Cersei dies of a toe splinter. Dany drowns in a river on the way to Westeros. Tryion gets eaten by a dragon accidently. Then the story suddenly ends at the end of Book 7 when a meteor hits Westeros, killing everybody.

OH GOD I'M laughing so hard... you made my point exactly... DON'T overthink it, people.

I am 31. I have been reading fantasy since about 13. I have read many series. I would describe myself as being of at least average intelligence. I don't read mystery novels (which I think is the best description of ASOIAF, actually), so I'm not trained to read for all the little seemingly innoccuous details, like Lyann's favorite flower. I picked up GoT a year before the show, because I heard that a fantasy series was going to HBO and I wanted to read it first, out of interest for the genre. I read very fast, and was waiting for DwD when it came out. I HAD NO IDEA R + L = J the first time I read through. It's not obvious when you read it. When you pull all the prophecy and evidence together, yes it is obvious. But you really have to play detective to figure it out - which I think is what GRRM was going for. I always compare GRRM to complex music, where not everything comes out on the first listen. He meant to bury things in there... but don't overthink it. R + L = J, but do we know what that means? Do we know how the story will end? No, we don't. Obviously, Jon is not fully dead. But how will that play out? Will he fight Danaerys? Marry her? Never meet her? No one knows. I don't get it when people say, "If such and such happens, I'm going to puke or cut off my own manhood and feed it to the goats" or whatever.. have faith my peoples. GRRM has spun a good yarn so far, we'd all agree. I'm sure the ending will be interesting and not exactly as anyone imagines it. What's Rickon going to do for example? Is there an Ice Dragon of a Stone dragon or just Dany's dragons? What is going on at Hardhome for the love of R'hollor? Anyone who thinks the ending is going to be predictable... have you been reading the books? Is all I can say.

[Sansouci]

R + L = J could easily fail to be true.

There is no particular reason why it should, in fact. Jon's plot is in fact hindered if it turns true - too much of a cliche and the character doesn't need it at all.

The one virtue of the concept is that it would be a superb explanation of Ned's promise to Lyanna. Not too convincing IMO, though. There are many other possibilities, and R+L = J isn't even the most interesting or close to it.

I think the important thing is not R+L=J being cliche or not but how do the other characters respond? Just because Jon may be an heir to the Iron Throne doesn't wrap everything up in a neat bow. In fact it may make his movement through the novel infinitely more complex and create more chaos. That would be a GRRM twist.