I love David Eddings

[HimOfTwoFaces]

Yeah actually; it always bothered me how strictly characterized (stereotyped?) each of the nationalities were, and the fact that it was rare to find exceptions to the rules; Algars all loved horses, Arends were all idiots, Tolnedrans all love money, and people from Cherek all love bashing each other's heads in. I can't recall at the moment, but was there even one decent Murgo in either the Belgariad or Malloreon?

This is essentially what I meant. There were also all those constant references to "ugly Angarak eyes." (Read: East Asian/Oriental eyes.) And, maybe it's just me, but I find something deeply offensive about the often-stated proposition that all Thuls are stupid because they were descended from the peasant class.

My favorite (paraphrased) line from Polgara the Sorceress: "I'm not racist or anything, but I do believe that certain races possess certain personality traits."

I have to admit that when I read these books for the first time (I was twelve), though all that did register somewhat, it didn't interfere unduly with my enjoyment of the books; they were exciting and funny, and they were my 'gateway' books to the world of grown-up fantasy.

Maybe that was my problem: I was already outside of the age range when I read them.

King Urgit's mother and steward were portrayed as decent people, IIRC, as did his wife-to-be.

I only read the first book of the Malloreon, and that was some time ago, so I don't really remember his mother and steward too well. I seem to remember that Urgit was relatively decent as well, but that was because he was only half-Murgo. He didn't inherit all that bad stuff from the male half of the Murgo royal line (madness, etc.).

I do remember Urgit's wife-to-be being decent . . . after being exposed to the Westernizing influence of Polgara and Ce'nedra's company. Then again, there was probably something innate in her decentness; note that her Angarak eyes had the distinctiion of not being ugly, because they were so abnormally large and perfectly almond-shaped that they only made her look "exotic."

Still, as Asian women are generally depicted as more assimilable than Asian men in the Western media, this doesn't exactly go against my point. I apologize if I'm remembering something incorrectly. Like I said, it's been a while.

[Lightning Lord]

I first read Eddings when I was about 13 I think. I honestly cannot stand his/her (was his wife writing with him then? don't know) work. Any of it, though I only slogged through the B/M series. It was almost ten years ago now, and the only specific criticism I can recall having of the books was Eddings's habit of writing sentences such as "He was so happy he literally flew down the hall." I always just stopped reading for a moment and thought "Huh, wow, he just took off? He left the ground for the length of the hallway and began flying? Why has this trait not been in evidence before? Can we expect this new talent to manifest itself later in the book as well?"

A petty critique, but it just bothered me, and still does. Sorry to turn this thread to "I hate Eddings." [/rant]

[Wolf Girl]

You mentioned the two prequels; Belgarath the Sorcerer and Polgara the Sorceress....I actually liked these two books more than any other Eddings book. They were novels that dealt with the history of that world and they covered a lot of ground. They were novels and not drug out plots, that kept repeating themselves. Not sure if I would be able to explain my thoughts on these two books, but I actually might read them again someday.

I never read the Belgarath one, but read Polgara. I agree, it was by far better than the Belgariad/Mallorean. Although it did still suffer from the excessively cute dialog and mannerisms that all his work has. It got to the point where when I saw it coming I just skipped over those parts, and then to the point where I gave it a final re-read for old-times' sake and then tossed the lot. They weren't the worst books I ever read, but they were pretty bad.

Yeah actually; it always bothered me how strictly characterized (stereotyped?) each of the nationalities were, and the fact that it was rare to find exceptions to the rules; Algars all loved horses, Arends were all idiots, Tolnedrans all love money, and people from Cherek all love bashing each other's heads in. I can't recall at the moment, but was there even one decent Murgo in either the Belgariad or Malloreon?

Agreed. That's just one example of how one-dimensional the whole thing was. Gah, even just thinking about these books is irritating me.

[oneeye]

well agree on racism but it showed how much an imprint the respective gods had on their followers. Gods were very powerful in B/M. And the angarak god was supposed to be evil as heck.

as for the dialogue, I don't remember the flying part but I thought silk's banter was quite clever.

[Week]

Read Belgarath and not Polgara, I thought it was better written and more enjoyable because Polgara is really a bitch

[HimOfTwoFaces]

It was almost ten years ago now, and the only specific criticism I can recall having of the books was Eddings's habit of writing sentences such as "He was so happy he literally flew down the hall." I always just stopped reading for a moment and thought "Huh, wow, he just took off? He left the ground for the length of the hallway and began flying? Why has this trait not been in evidence before? Can we expect this new talent to manifest itself later in the book as well?"

My favorite misuse of literally: "I was literally scared to death." I think that was Puff Daddy at the Kennedy awards.

well agree on racism but it showed how much an imprint the respective gods had on their followers.

Even if you accept this as true, it doesn't account for the whole "Thuls are stupid because their ancestors were peasants and Nadraks are lazy because their ancestors were nobles (or was it merchants?)" thing.

And the angarak god was supposed to be evil as heck.

And therefore his people must be evil. Solution: model Angarak language, society, and physical characteristics after Asians.

[Galactus]

I'm not sure how you get the "model angarak society after asians" thing. The thuls and Nadraks where more popular stereotypes of russians than anything else. I'd give you the point about Murgoes though.

[Week]

malloreons and murgos seemed pretty mongolian while the nadraks were quite russian...nadraks were under the influence of the other angarak hordes, but turned on them once it was possible..

[Bazzlebane]

The Thulls seemed to be Polacks...including their proximity to the Russian-esque Nadraks.

[Week]

good point...perhaps murgos are more cossacks or something?

[Bazzlebane]

I just thought Murgos were Orcs!

[Werthead]

Given Eddings has all the worldbuilding skills of a dead newt, how the hell can you tell the difference between one culture and the others? Reading The Rivan Codex (in which Eddings explains how he saw dollar signs when realising that The Lord of the Rings had been republished 400 times since its first appearance) is illuminating on how much stuff Eddings created as backstory/backplot and then used approximately 0.3% of it in the Belgariad and Malloreon. Shockingly lame.

[HimOfTwoFaces]

I'm not sure how you get the "model angarak society after asians" thing. The thuls and Nadraks where more popular stereotypes of russians than anything else. I'd give you the point about Murgoes though.

I thought I remembered Belgarath saying something about the Murgos being the truest representations of real Angaraks on this side of the ocean, with the Nadraks and Thuls being more influenced by Western society. Am I misremembering this?

[Ser Barry]

If he had only included white 'Western' characters then you could accuse him of racism for not including any other races. He made the decision to brand entire races of people as thick/evil/greedy and they had to look like something. Blame him for poor writing and oversimplifying but racism would appear to give him too much credit.

[HimOfTwoFaces]

I disagree. He and his wife live in Portland, Oregon, which is not the most diverse city in the U.S. If he'd simply not included any non-white "Western" characters, I would have assumed it was for the same reason the North is almost invariably cold, while the South is almost invariably hot in fantasy worlds (at least the ones I've read). Most fantasy authors live in areas of the Northern Hemisphere inhabited primarily by "white" people, and therefore their worlds tend to look like that.

However, it's really not an accident that Angaraks look the way they do. Eddings made a point of making everything about them harsh and ugly, which is why he gave them "ugly Angarak eyes."

And it's not just the Angaraks that are stereotyped. Tolnedrans are greedy because they're Tolnedrans, Sendars are practical because they're Sendars, etc.

[Vagrancy]

Yeah; if I remember correctly, Eddings even admits that the Angaraks were modelled to be "Muslim-Mongolian-Visigoths" or something similar in The Rivan Codex. And the whole 'angular Angarak eyes' thing is harped on pretty regularly too.

[Voland]

Agree with what's been said above. I reread the second Sparhawk-trilogy a few years back and it was shockinlgy racist and stereotypical as well. Can't recall too much about the rest as my inclination to reread all of them died a horrible death after finishing the Hidden City. Well, racist might be pushing it a bit since it seemed that anyone outside of Sparhawk's merry circle of friends were complete and utter morons. It did go on and on about the general uselesness of serfs though. All in all that series was atrocious and I have no need to further blemish my fond childhood memories of Eddings by struggling through his other works. Least of all read something "new" he's written.

[Rabbit21]

I don't worry about the "races" thing because he was a fairly new fantasy writer trying out a human world where he had to differentiate people somehow. The story of both the Belgariad and the Mallorean is better for young adults and I remember enjoying the series immensely mainly because I knew what to expect from different people based on their nationality. Besides, who's to say that people in a medieval type society didn't conform to certain racial traits. When you haven't seen the world and a certain way of being is all you know................................................................

Anyway, I think the racism accusation is a result of reading too much into things. I personally enjoyed the Belgariad and the Mallorean and thought the prequels were his best writing. The Sparhawk novels were tough to take mainly because the characters all said the same things. Everyone could be devious, men were stupid and the Sparhawk people worshipped a strange god. All in all it took away from my enjoyment of the series. He does these things a little in the B/M world but not nearly as badly.

The Redemption of Althalus wasn't great, but it wasn't terrible either. I didn't feel like I had wasted my time reading it. Don't know what that means in the great scheme of things, but thats my two cents.

[Bazzlebane]

I agree with Rabbit here re: "racism". Basically, Eddings had two things going on:

1) He was trying to keep it simple, aiming for a young adult audience

2) Unlike Tolkien, he only had humans (in the main, yes I know Ce'Nedra was a dryad).

Tolkien varied races but c'mon, elves acted like elves, dwarfs acted like dwarfs, orcs -- most of all -- acted like orcs and so on. Eddings just did it within human nationalities, and explained it via the gods they worshipped/resembled.

Is it simplistic? Yes. Lazy world-building in comparison with the masters? Sure. But racist? That's taking it too far, although "ugly Angarak eyes" does come across rather badly, I must admit.

[Werthead]

Whilst I despise Eddings as one of the least talented authors being published today, regardless of genre, I must admit I'd never have really called him racist ('stupid', certainly, 'ignorant' possilbly). But then I did once read L. Ron Hubbard's Mission Earth dekology and managed not to kill myself in disgust. If you want to see an author being not just outrageously racist, but also homophobic, sexist, elitist and relentlessly sick, then look no further (shudder).

I still feel soiled.