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Best War time leader?


Batman

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I'd go for Stannis aswell.

I really don't get the Tywin love over here, he might be the luckiest Lord to ever walk the Seven Kingdoms. He was saved by the death of Robert and Ned's fall, after attacking the Riverlands which was a HUGE risk. Then during the war Edmure(!) defeated him, before he could escape from a certain encirclement and complete annihilation of his army, to march of to King's Landing with ten thousands of Tyrell swords, attacking Stannis in the rear. Again, we can't say its exactly brilliant tactical thinking now.. can we? Luck.

Stannis really is the Supreme Commander, the guy you want to run a whole army. With Robb in the role of the Field Marshall, directing from the front lines and right there at the battlefield. It would be a pefect duo, let Robb be the figurehead that the troops like and respect, and Stannis the mastermind behind the scenes.

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Jon Arryn - The puppet master behind Robert's rebellion

It's funny how Dany blames Ned and Robert while remaining ignorant to roles of Hoster Tully, Jon Arryn and Rickard Stark, three men that formed power block that cost her father the throne.

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Tywin Lannister is, without a doubt, the man who gives you the best chance to win.

And it is because he's ruthless that he is the best. He'll do whatever is necessary to prevail.

Tywin is nothing without his money. Given the same resources available to them where the only variable is the leader himself Tywin wouldn't be worthy of washing Stannis's boots.

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Raw talent alone? Probably Daenerys Targaryen. All of these other jokers you're all naming had actual training and instruction in leading battles, and most of them experience to boot, but Dany took three cities with a ragtag force with the benefit of none of that by just basically making it up as she went along, and using some pretty creative strategies at that. That pretty much beats the hell out of anyone else on the list in terms of demonstrated natural aptitude.

Honorable mention goes to Robb Stark, who had the benefit of training but not experience and was still kicking the stuffing out of Tywin until he massively derped. He did have some pretty significant help and guidance in making his plans, however.

Taking into account experience as well, probably the Blackfish for overall best.

Stannis and Tywin are both overrated punks. The only thing about Stannis is Melisandre and her shadow babies, and he can't inspire people to want to follow him ... and that's as important in a wartime leader as strategy and tactics, if not more. As for Tywin, he's very good at underestimating the enemy and losing battles. About all he has is cold-blooded ruthlessness and tons of resources, and even then, the plot practically went out of its way to save him from his own incompetence.

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Dany only lives because of rediculous plot loopholes like handing over the keys to an army of mercenary robot slaves while within the city walls.

Tywin is the reigning king of being coddled by the plot. And what you're describing isn't really a plot hole. History is filled with people and cultures being undone by encountering others who didn't play by the rules they'd come to take for granted.

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Raw talent alone? Probably Daenerys Targaryen. All of these other jokers you're all naming had actual training and instruction in leading battles, and most of them experience to boot, but Dany took three cities with a ragtag force with the benefit of none of that by just basically making it up as she went along, and using some pretty creative strategies at that. That pretty much beats the hell out of anyone else on the list in terms of demonstrated natural aptitude.

Honorable mention goes to Robb Stark, who had the benefit of training but not experience and was still kicking the stuffing out of Tywin until he massively derped. He did have some pretty significant help and guidance in making his plans, however.

Taking into account experience as well, probably the Blackfish for overall best.

Stannis and Tywin are both overrated punks. The only thing about Stannis is Melisandre and her shadow babies, and he can't inspire people to want to follow him ... and that's as important in a wartime leader as strategy and tactics, if not more. As for Tywin, he's very good at underestimating the enemy and losing battles. About all he has is cold-blooded ruthlessness and tons of resources, and even then, the plot practically went out of its way to save him from his own incompetence.

ragtag?? The unsullied, the best infantry unit in the world is ragtag?? which books have you been reading??

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Based on what I've read - Tywin got fooled by Robb , and we haven't seen any great achievements on the battlefield from him- he couldnt even defeat Edmure at the stone mill. Stannis fought 1 battle - and lost. Tarly fought one at duskendale and won(where he outnumbered the northmen).

Robb on the other hand won at least 2 major battles(Camps and Oxcross- in both he was outnumbered 3:1 or worse) and numerous small ones (whispering wood, the storming of the crag and others in the west) - all of those he won.

Add to that Robb was only 15 and we have a clear ranking -

1.Robb Stark

2.Randyll Tarly

3.Tywin Lannister( he's ahead of stannis because he atleast managed to beat stannis on the blackwater)

4.Stannis Baratheon( dont know why he's so respected - half his battleplan in the north came from Jon Snow , he lost on the blackwater and all he did in Robert's rebellion was sit inside a fortress which was impenetrable - getting a steady supply of food from davos)

Stannis destroyed the Greyjoy fleet, something nobody thought could be done. The Greyjoys had the finest navy and naval commanders and Stannis beat them. He also survived the siege of Storms End despite having most of the Reach against him. He also beat mance Rayder with a weakened army.

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Robb is a great leader seeing its his first time in a war whilst others have seen/experienced battle.

Stannis is also proven in many battles both naval and on the field.

Tarly is seen to be one of the best soldiers in Westeros and smashed Roberts forces.

There is also Robert and Ned who won a successful rebellion

Its mentioned a lot that Tywin Lannister is a seasoned Commander

Victarion is great at sea and Euron seems to be great at strategy.

One of my favourites is the Blackfish who was great with Robb

Also a mention to Aerys' Kingsguard

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as so many people don't understand the tywin props, i don't get the tywin hate/robb,stannis,brynden tully love. as far as the story is concerned Tywin Lannister won the war of the five kings. Robb is dead, Renly is dead, Balon is dead, Stannis barely exists to anybody anymore and there is a child with the golden locks of a lannister sitting comfortably on the iron throne. Tywin was one of the few players in the game of thrones that always saw the big picture. all of robb's wins in the battlefield meant nothing in the end, if anything all it did was strengthen Lannister power further across the seven kingdoms. Sure robb won a few battles but he made a crucial mistake that cost him the war. and his war died with him, while tywin is still pulling strings all over westeros. Stannis has surprisingly survived this long. Brynden tully deserves his fair share of respect because i believe he was a major reason for robb's success, but with that in mind he should have never allowed the dissension between the starks and the freys. king or not, he and the rest of robb's council should have made it clear that continuing from that point would be impossible.

as for my list

tWotFK:

1-tywin lannister-his mark is on robert's rebellion, and he won the war of the five kings while only being a hand

2- tie- Stannis baratheon- staying power, not to mention a good wartime leader has powerful weapons that they use intelligently, the red queen's deadly shadow babies is top cheese/robb stark- if not for a stupid childish move he may have won the war

3- balon greyjoy- an opportunist who should have known better than to trust is sick f***ing family.

4- ...ugh renly- poor f***ing renly, this guy literally had one of the best chances at the outset of the war. he had the information before anybody else, he was loved by the people, banners came to him from everywhere, he had a 'decent' claim to the throne(IMO actual claim means nothing, thrones are only taken by force, without it they are simply passed on through generations), he had a bevy of talented skilled and loyal knights under his command. his mistake was not actually going to war. instead he sat around and held tournaments as if he had already won the crown. (just because you crown yourself king doesn't mean you get to skip the war part and go straight to the celebration.)

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ragtag?? The unsullied, the best infantry unit in the world is ragtag?? which books have you been reading??

She started out with almost nothing. Acquiring the Unsullied was one of her military victories.

In fact, winning without fighting, or with minimal fighting needed after having manipulated events so that your enemy cannot win, is the highest form of warfare.

Read up on your Art of War. There's a reason it's still heavily referenced today.

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Robb Stark is the best war time leader in terms of tactics and strategies and pure luck, but he would serve best as a general under a more shrewd, politically savvy king such as Tywin Lannister or perhaps Jon Arryn. There's not any people who are such skilled generals as Robb and have the political skill, so a two man team would work a lot better.

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I would go with Tywin Lannister to lead me into war as up until his death he was turning the tide against Robb and Stannis through alliances and treachery as well as seemingly being very well tactically minded on a battlefield.

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