Best War time leader?

[Jamie Lannister]

Balon Greyjoy always struck me as a pretty good wartime leader.

Unfortunately you can't get your ass royally kicked and surrender if your opponent is a bridge, though.

[I'll pay the iron price]

Tywin Lannister is a pretty good wartime leader

[Rickons Revenge]

Robb Stark because he never lost a battle if you don't count The Red Wedding. But Jon Snow clearly because he is The Prince that was Promised so he can't lose

[gespenster7th]

I read the books five years ago, so there's a lot I don't remember (rereading them now), but I read a lot of military history, so I'll put in my two (or many more than) cents.

Robert

I have to say I feel very impressed by Robert. At least, what many peripheral characters say about his campaigns in ADWD. I think most of the comments were made by characters in Stannis's army. Based on these, it seems that Robert made regular use of forced marches to move quicker against his enemies, and in war, as every great military commander in history from Napoleon to Rommel will attest, speed is key. At the very least, I feel that Robert was the best campaigner. Whether or not it really was him or if it was Ned pulling the strings is obviously uncertain, and given both Jon's and Robb's natural talent at warfare, this is certainly possible. But Robert seems to me to have a good personality for campaigning. He reminds me a lot of Marshall Michel Ney, who fought under Napoleon - he was headstrong and brash, but was lightning fast and had a strong will to win.

Ned, Jon, and Robb

Now, we don't know much of Ned's prowess as a Commander. We know he fought at the Trident, but I, at least, don't remember any specifics. But given that Jon and Robb both appear to be skilled despite their age, it's easy to assume that he taught them well. I don't remember enough to say whether credit for Robb's victories should go to the Blackfish, but he did win a significant number of battles - a sign of tactical and operational skill. But Robb's objective was disadvantaged from the start. An independent Kingdom of the North could easily be defended from a land invasion, and since it also included Bear Island and Skagos, there would be no base of operations from which to launch a seaborn invasion except the Iron Islands. But since, due to family connections, he felt it necessary to include the Riverlands, he had to protect a territory that lay beyond his natural and easy to defend frontier. This was his disadvantage. True, his eastern flank was safe from attack by the Arryns, but he severely miscalculated in thinking the Greyjoys would join him. Youth might be blamed here, but I feel that, under the same circumstances, an older Robb may still have trusted Theon to come through. As for Jon, he hasn’t done much in terms of leading armies, but his advice to Stannis in ADWD – discussing terrain, reconnaissance, and lines of supply, communication, and retreat – seemed to me to be very good advice for someone inexperienced in war.

Stannis

Stannis has fought two battles during the series, and two before. The Blackwater was a disaster for him, but few people could have foreseen Tyrion’s use of wildfire, and his one battle at the Wall, as others have said, had more to do with superiority in weapons and discipline. He held out under difficult conditions at Storm’s End during Robert’s Rebellion, but we (or only I) don’t know the details of this – whether he simply sat under siege (no easy task by itself) or kept up a proactive defense by taking the tactical offensive whenever the opportunity presented itself. He definitely made good use of his resources, seeing as he lasted throughout the siege. But his naval victory in the Greyjoy Rebellion stands out to me as his most impressive. Even by modern standards, destroying an enemy fleet is no easy matter – the Japanese fleet in WWII had to be whittled down by attrition – and in Stannis’s case, there are no canons to blast apart opposing ships. It could only have been accomplished by either trapping the Iron Fleet or dispersing it, achieving small-scale superiorities of numbers and destroying it piecemeal. Overall, Stannis seems to stand out to me as a naval commander, but naval warfare differs greatly from land warfare. Like in Desert Warfare, there’s no terrain – it’s maneuver warfare, pure and simple, and whoever has the most audacious battle style, so long as he maintains secure lines of supply and communication, will win. On land, things aren’t so simple.

Tywin

Tywin doesn’t have any particularly stunning victories to speak of, so on a tactical or operational level, we can only say for certain that he’s adequate (he’s not bad, but he’s not great either). But he does stand out more as a leader than as a campaigner. He’s clearly Machiavellian in his style of rule, and he appears to be apt at building alliances (or at least controlling the men who are). More importantly, as we saw in Robert’s rebellion, he’s an opportunist and understands the need to weigh risks and benefits. Tywin seems to me to be the best wartime administrator, managing the grand strategy of his side – building alliances, setting political objectives (war is, after all, an extension of politics by other means), and negotiating a favorable peace.

Mance Raydar

Mance is also noteworthy. He hasn’t won any battles, nor has he proven himself as an administrator. But he has done something tremendously difficult – he united a people who are dispersed by their geography and had never before mustered the strength to march on the Wall. This in itself is significant. Mance is a People’s General, and I see more in him of Mao Zedong than any other historical military leader. Given the opportunity, I feel that Mance, and the Free Folk themselves, would be more adept at waging Guerilla Warfare than any one else in the entire series.

I’ve left out Randyll Tarly and the Blackfish because I don’t remember enough detail to speak comfortably about them. Some others, like Daenerys, I don’t find to be noteworthy in any way. I also think it takes more than a single engagement to judge any commander, hence why I left out Jon Connington.

I’m rereading the series now and I’m taking notes on all military and geopolitical matters. Maybe when I finish, I’ll organize and present my overall opinions.

[Kittyhat]

I want someone who actually wins and doesn't just have "great military commander" as an Informed Ability?

And I want someone who wins meaningful objectives and not just irrelevant field battles?

Then Daenerys Targaryen is the only living, proven character who comes readily to mind ... despite being an inexperienced, untrained rookie. I wouldn't turn my nose up at Tyrion Lannister or Jon Snow, though. And perhaps the Blackfish would fully live up to his reputation if he were in charge rather than working for Robb Stark.

[Khal Diablo]

In a war Tywin is my choice. I feel is the the total package. He is respected, intelligent and has a wealth of experience. He is best versed in strategies (tactics yes I know Tyrion). If I had to pick a leader to go into one individual battle...hands down Khal Drogo...last I checked he has never been defeated.

[The Mother of Dragons]

I vote for Drogon :laugh:

[Khal Diablo]

I vote for Drogon :laugh:

ummm...that is like saying I would want a nuclear bomb leading you into war. Great weapon but without a sound mind to control it might just end of backfiring.

[mor2]

War? then from those mentioned I'll take Tywin Lannister, if possible I'll take few of the others as inspiring commanders.

[The Mother of Dragons]

ummm...that is like saying I would want a nuclear bomb leading you into war. Great weapon but without a sound mind to control it might just end of backfiring.

I was joking...honestly I'd want Randyll Tarly, Tywin Lannister, Daenerys Targaryen, or Ned Stark. Or you know, Aegon the Conqueror, Visenya, and Rhaenys work too.

[mor2]

to add to my previous post, I want someone like Tywin to plan, somone like Renly to lead the troops to battle, someone like Robert to lead in battle and many like the unsullied to do the deed.

[Batman]

Balon Greyjoy always struck me as a pretty good wartime leader.

Unfortunately you can't get your ass royally kicked and surrender if your opponent is a bridge, though.

Wait how, he lost his first Rebellion, Robert and Ned destroyed him.

[Athanasius Pernath]

Baelor 'Breakspear' Targaryen

Aegon Rivers 'Bittersteel'

Randyll Tarly

Robb Stark

Ned Stark

'Oakenfist' Velaryon

Stannis Baratheon

about Aegon the Conqueror..i've really no idea of how a great commander he was. i mean, when you've three freakkin' dragon, you don't really care too much about winning the annual Napoleon Award, right?