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barrychenault

Thoughts about The Red Wedding...SPOILERS!

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It's so long ago I first read it I don't quite remember... I think I had a feeling something bad *might* happen simply because a chapter about a wedding where nothing else happens would be kind of strange as well and I remembered Walder Frey as a lying scumbag but I was still shocked 'cos obviously I wasn't completely sure either. I think. The scene is brilliant because as the slaughter begins you realize the musicians were so bad because they were actually soldiers, which just adds to the shock because before that it seemed more like a comical thing of Walder being too much of a git to hire proper artists.

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:lmao:

His convo with Jaime didn't clue you in at all?

Also Just his behavior in Arya's perspective back at Harrenhal showed he wasnt a good man.

Edited cause i dont like double posting :)

I was spoiled about the red wedding from a deviantart meme entry that had beautiful art but had spoilers all from SOS which annoyed me. I ended up reading the chapter summaries before reading each chapter for myself so i spoiled myself all the way up to joffrey's wedding then i couldnt take it and went back to read each detail. It was then I could pick up on the foreshadowing. I already knew when Robb came back with Jeyne "Oh no... Robb's lost the war already...idiot" Again from Tywin's threat about quills and suspicion from Bolton, Jaime, the old crone on the hill and the invitation to the wedding itself from THAT frey also irkd me.

Greywind's behavior was obvious and cat's warnings were too. But Robb so stupid and not heeding the warning from his own wolf. I bet Greywind wished he could slip into Robb and control him. I think Robb was the only stark child who couldn't warg with his wolf because he was so dense. (Sansa most likely could have if Lady lived long enough. But Sansa condemned her own dog to death because she is so dutiful)

After reading this thread though I had forgotten about ACOK's chapter about the visions in the house of the Undying. I just re-read it and so much of what happened in ASOS was prophesized as well a alot of things in to come books now that i think about it (but i have yet to read them).

Now, my question for you guys is: Do you think the red wedding will happen in Season 3 of GOT? or 4?

Since they pushed Jon's chapters forward I'm thinking that the big things to happen is the attack at castle black and Dany's emancipation of Astapor

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Now, my question for you guys is: Do you think the red wedding will happen in Season 3 of GOT? or 4?

Since they pushed Jon's chapters forward I'm thinking that the big things to happen is the attack at castle black and Dany's emancipation of Astapor

When I heard that Storm will be separated in two seasons in the TV series, I wondered about it too. Though I'm betting that it will be since it will be a nice and nasty season cliffhanger and it's somewhat in the middle part of the book. Those happenings in Astapor and in the Wall could be in the season finale of 3.

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Was a wtf moment for me didn't see it coming at all i was native enough to believe Frey would never dare murder a guest under his own roof like that and thus lord Frey is the character I hate the most in the series even more so then Theron and Joffrey, hope the lord of the crossing is ready cause Winter is coming and she is P*****.

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I read it a couple of days ago, and being the idiot that I am, I spoiled it for myself. I felt the dread, but maybe it was because I KNEW something was going to happen. When Greywolf was snarling, I knew something was wrong... How far are you guys in the book? I think I just finished the Davos chapter.

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Yes, I agree with everyone here. I felt a sense of dread as I read the preceding Catelyn chapters but the wedding was a complete suprise, the most well written and beautifully executed piece of writing I have come across in recent memory.

I read it a couple of days ago, and being the idiot that I am, I spoiled it for myself. I felt the dread, but maybe it was because I KNEW something was going to happen. When Greywolf was snarling, I knew something was wrong... How far are you guys in the book? I think I just finished the Davos chapter.

Could not have said it better myself. But here's an interesting question: how did you all feel about it? I don't mean whether you were suprised or not, but whether you felt sympathetic, apthetic or glad. For me, it was the latter. Now, don't paint me as a Lannister-lover just yet. I don't like all of them either. I can say that my sympathies lie with some members and supporters of each house. Stark: Jon Snow & Bran Lannister: Jaime & Tyrion, Baratheon: Stannis & Davos.

For me, the overwhelming amount of sympathy and support for House Stark is simply baffling. Catelyn was an impulsive, treacherous and selfish woman. Robb, an impulsive, selfish oathbreaker. Arya, an impulsive, selfish murderer (but still a child so I guess she can be excused). Sansa, well...we all know what she is. I got the feeling that the Red Wedding was the Stark House finally receiving their dues after betraying and trampling on the pride of their own bannermen (Karstark and Frey). I can totally sympathize with Lord Frey after suffering humiliation repeatedly from Tully and Stark. Bolton is just a cunning, scheming bastard.

The Jaime incident with Catelyn in Riverrun and the Karstark incident with Robb, robbed (no pun intended) me of what little sympathy I had for the Starks to begin with. I sympathized with Theon more than with Robb. At least I'd always marked Theon as a bit of an idiot in over his head but Robb had all these false pretensions of honour that the Starks traditionally enjoyed rubbing in everyone's faces. I read the Red Wedding chapter with grim satisfaction that all the arrogance and errors of House Stark was finally beginning to wash away.

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I read this yesterday and it took me a couple of hours to digest what I had just read. My head was spinning after Tyrion's chapter where Tywin had told him that he had made a deal with Frey for alliance.Obviously, he had a great part in this as well. Makes sense to why the "Rains of Castamere" was playing loudly.

I agree with the above mentioned posts about foreshadowing but what really got me was Melisandre's leech burning where Stannis named Robb as one of the Kings he wanted to die. I wouldn't have expected that from him.

I felt for Arya that she was so close to getting back to her family, only to have it taken away from her. And the Hound, at least he was honest about what had happened. And he did protect her from the fighting outside.

The Freys had this planned when they found out that Robb had betrayed his oath to them. And I'm sure that was Bolton's cue to take over the North (and he married one of the Walda Freys). Hope something happens to them.

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I read it a couple of days ago, and being the idiot that I am, I spoiled it for myself. I felt the dread, but maybe it was because I KNEW something was going to happen. When Greywolf was snarling, I knew something was wrong... How far are you guys in the book? I think I just finished the Davos chapter.

I'm at the Davos chapter right now.

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I found Arya not getting to see her family when she was so close many times more upsetting than the actual deaths.

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I found Arya not getting to see her family when she was so close many times more upsetting than the actual deaths.

And I wonder how this will change her?

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And I wonder how this will change her?

I felt that arya really felt helpless afterward. What could she do after something like that? All she has left is what? her brother Jon on the wall? She has a couple of choices, run to jon's side or make her own path. It seems to me that there's really nothing left for her. She wanted to go back and die with her family because really all she wanted was to be with her family. The hound pulled her out of that situation cause he's awesome. But she's really nobody now.

I felt so heartbroken about the event itself. (because of the pretext of bringing two into love you broke the hearts of many) But It's true that Both Robb and Cat are the ones to blame for their folly's. And what GRRM had said was that everyone is both good and evil depending on the choices they make and how you view a situation.

so Vjott you do have a good point. It was definitely an eye opener.

As for the leeches, Stannis asked cat to come to his aid during negotiations and did not openly join him. Because of her lack of support, he took it as Robb giving him the finger.

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I read this yesterday and it took me a couple of hours to digest what I had just read. My head was spinning after Tyrion's chapter where Tywin had told him that he had made a deal with Frey for alliance.Obviously, he had a great part in this as well. Makes sense to why the "Rains of Castamere" was playing loudly.

I agree with the above mentioned posts about foreshadowing but what really got me was Melisandre's leech burning where Stannis named Robb as one of the Kings he wanted to die. I wouldn't have expected that from him.

I felt for Arya that she was so close to getting back to her family, only to have it taken away from her. And the Hound, at least he was honest about what had happened. And he did protect her from the fighting outside.

The Freys had this planned when they found out that Robb had betrayed his oath to them. And I'm sure that was Bolton's clue to take over the North (and he married one of the Walda Freys). Hope something happens to them.

I would have been suprised had Stannis not named Robb. Given everything that we know about the man through Clash of Kings and this book as well as some explicit statements of his intent to deal with Robb the same as with the other pretenders made it obvious to me that he would not balk at dealing with the northmen. Now whether the red woman's sorcery really had a role to play in the deaths is a matter for debate.

I felt so heartbroken about the event itself. (because of the pretext of bringing two into love you broke the hearts of many) But It's true that Both Robb and Cat are the ones to blame for their folly's. And what GRRM had said was that everyone is both good and evil depending on the choices they make and how you view a situation.

so Vjott you do have a good point. It was definitely an eye opener.

As for the leeches, Stannis asked cat to come to his aid during negotiations and did not openly join him. Because of her lack of support, he took it as Robb giving him the finger.

Upon reflection, though, I do seem a bit harsh. Robb and Catelyn were humans just like anyone else and prone to error and shortcoming. Perhaps their "human-ness" is what made us so frustrated with them as we could see some of their weaknesses in ourselves: jumping to conclusions, giving in to passions and making rash decisions. It retrospect, the Red Wedding was a savage end to a short-lived dream. Personally, I'd wished that Robb had made different choices: refused to be King in the North and joined with Stannis: as rightful a king as Westeros was ever to receive. Then they would have joined their forces, Rob from the north with horses and infantry and Stannis from the east with ships and more soldiers, and pinned King's Landing. I think that is what Ned would have done if he had managed to escape King's Landing and take command. His last act as Hand was to send a letter to Dragonstone (which never reached) to inform Stannis that he was now the king. Robb spat on his father's last act, an act he paid for with his life, by declaring himself king and bringing further instability to Westeros. It seemed to me that he cared nothing for the realm. To paraphrase Varys, when the high lords play their game of thrones, it is the realm (meaning the smallfolk) that suffers.

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Well said lord Varys!

You couldnt have said it any better vjott! I wish Ned didnt make some of his mistakes too. TELL THE QUEEN? really? he should have taken up on Renly's offer

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And I wonder how this will change her?

She's probably going to add Walder Frey and Roose Bolton to her list once she finds out the particulars of the incident. Arya's just a 9 (or 10?) year old child. I can't see how anything she would try to do could account for much. Apart from the guard she killed at Harrenhal (taken by surprise), she couldn't normally take on an adult and everyone guarding the people she would like to kill are trained adults. The best she could do is stay put like Sansa and wait for the war to end.

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I completely and utterly spoiled the whole RW for myself. I should have known that anyone who hasn't finished ADwD should avoid reading A Wiki of Ice and Fire. Or anything ASOIAF on the Internet that isn't expressly spoiler-proofed somehow. I kept thinking I could look up things I'd forgotten from previous books or spoil little things I was curious about without spoiling big things. I can't even Google a character's name without spoiling (the Google suggestions from other people's searches will give things away). Anyway, off-topic.

The experience of reading it would have been unbearably intense for me had I not known it was coming. And I probably wouldn't have been entirely sure that Cat was dead until a few chapters later ("Make an end of it" and "the steel was at her throat, and its bite was red and cold" are pretty clear I guess, but it didn't say "...and then Cat was dead...no, seriously guys, she died" so there might have been room for readers in denial there). As it was, it was almost unbearably intense. Despite knowing that it was coming even while reading ACoK, I cried at the end of that chapter. Pretty well all of Catelyn's ASoS chapters were heartbreaking, and then for her to have died thinking that all her babies were dead or near dead, that was just...my God...and Arya being so close...I don't have children, so I don't know, but I thought GRRM conveyed a mother's pain just masterfully in her chapters.

Catelyn doesn't seem to have been a well-liked character but I liked her. I know her desire for peace even at the cost of justice or revenge doesn't make her as exciting as the fighters and plotters. But she was right--revenge doesn't bring back a dead husband or son and usually just creates more dead husbands and sons. She was too "old" (30s or something, but grief aged her) to hang on to pride over the safety of her family. Let the other side win their game of thrones if they want; it will win them pain and grief more than anything else. And for that I think she was much wiser than any of the other characters.

Of course, I guess there wouldn't be much of a story if she'd gotten her way. :)

One related thing that wasn't spoiled for me was *SPOILER in white text to follow* Zombie Cat! Awesome. Although Zombie Cat is the polarir opposite of Regular Cat.

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You had the house of undying....and especially the signing of the parchment that stated Jon Snow as rightful Heir...gave me the impression that Robb was surely going to die.

But....what I thought was brilliant...was how GRRM had Robb come up with this masterful plan to take back Winterfell by using the help of the Green Seerers...this made me believe that Robb had a few more battles in him and he wouldnt be leaving us just yet.

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Catelyn doesn't seem to have been a well-liked character but I liked her. I know her desire for peace even at the cost of justice or revenge doesn't make her as exciting as the fighters and plotters. But she was right--revenge doesn't bring back a dead husband or son and usually just creates more dead husbands and sons. She was too "old" (30s or something, but grief aged her) to hang on to pride over the safety of her family. Let the other side win their game of thrones if they want; it will win them pain and grief more than anything else. And for that I think she was much wiser than any of the other characters.

Of course, I guess there wouldn't be much of a story if she'd gotten her way. :)

The main reason I don't like Catelyn is because she released Jaime. Also because of the business with Tyrion and how absolutely stubborn she was that he was the person that hired Bran's assasin. She never even considered the most minute possibility that Petyr was lying to her. Even after Tyrion pleaded his case reasonably (why would he arm an assasin with his own blade) and finding out that Tyrion never bet against his brother in the tournament.

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Hi guys,new member here.

I was completely devastated by the Red Wedding not only because I really felt for Robb and Catelyn but also because of the gamechanger that it was.I was hoping that Robb would eventually get his own POV and become as much of a main character as Jon,Danny and Tyrion.I was expecting him to restore the strenght of his forces and finally confront Tywin in the field.When my expectations were crashed in such a brutal and cynical way,I was feeling like not any other storyline mattered,until I forced myself to pick up the book again.

I didn't think much of Robb appointing an heir as a way of forshadowing,though I did find it sad,that Robb was thinking of the prospect of his death and the need for someone to pass the line.Grey Wind's behaviour didn't struck me as a warning either.I started having this terrible feel of uneasiness during the feast,what with the drunk bannermen,Roslyn crying and the Freys that were close to the Starks missing and even then I couldn't imagine the end result being the murder of almost everyone.

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I work security and have alot of downtime when I work, and it was a perfect time to read the series... I was at work when I got to the Red Wedding .... hindsight is 20/20 and if you look back there were indicators, as previously mentioned, but when I actually got to that part... I was stunned and shocked, I had to stop reading for the rest of the day and could not stop thinking about what I had read.

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Well, the second the novel mentioned in an earlier chapter (I forget which, most likely one of Catelyn's chapters) that Robb stopped keeping his direwolf with him at all times, because of his lady love, I knew he was dead. Knew it, just not when.

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