Arya - too young to be a professional killer?

[jarl the climber]

I do admit that she can probably defend herself with a staff much better after the training. Still, the point was never to train Arya into some sort of brute warrior. What's the point of having a secret assassin trained to be proficient in wielding weapons?

The training was to teach her to be aware and mindful and to defend and evade. He doesn't stop this training because she's become a master with the staff. He stops it because she's learned to recognize his presence quick enough to defend herself and evade his beating. I imagine when they 'take her ears', the training will involve him sneaking up behind her and whispering secrets into her deaf ears. This training will also go quickly because she's got her secret tool; she's a warg.

Another thing to keep in mind is that a staff or a cane could be a deadly weapon and be used to kill somebody in an innocuous way, like tripping somebody down a long staircase or pushing somebody from a height like the way Balon Greyjoy died. They also had her cutting up vegatables with a kinfe in the kitchen when she was blind. They are training her the way Mr. Miyagi trained Daniel in the Karate Kid.

[Ghost714]

To answer the original question, I don't think that people believe the children are too young to do what they are doing. We know that GRRM originally intended to have a time skip of several years to allow the kids to develop their respective disciplines naturally. As the timeskip was abandoned, the training montages have to be crammed in, so we see the kids learning a lot of things in an unrealistic space of time. Seeing an eleven year old killer isn't unbelievable, but seeing an eleven year old learn to be a magic ninja in a few weeks is.

I'd also like to confirm that adult life expectancy in Westeros would not be ridiculously lower than in the modern First World. Yes, there will have more deaths from war and childbirth, but on the plus side, lifestyle and cultural differences mean less deaths from heart disease, respiratory disease, and diabetes. I can say with almost certainty that no one in Westeros has died through smoking - and no, Quentyn Martell doesn't count.

It has not been weeks, it's been months, she spent months alone as Cat, because she mentions Brusco's daughters moon blood multiple times. Also, it's not like be the end of ADwD Arya was a full on Faceless Man, because she wasn't, she just now got past the first level of training if anything. The only magic she has done on her own is being a Warg, everything else was not her.

So for the thousandth time, it's not unrealistic, especially for the world of aSoIaF.

[Menos Grande]

Their training is quite efective, to lose one's self and become another and compile all the life experience from several lives... she was cat, them the blind girl, they will rob her legs , hands, and face when she is ready with all that I think that she'll learn some sword play.. she got it from Syrio and he was a Bravosi.

Jaquen was a high level assassin with magic abilitys. For me is esier that she lerns martial arts than magic, magic seems to be a thing very difficult that you need years to attain, and compreed its costs.. no magic comes for free in ASoIaF, its a Sword without a hilt.

Back to the thread... she is not a full assassin yet, so maybe it isn't so exagerate.. but it sure it's strange even by their standars they pointed out.

[Errant Bard]

Seeing an eleven year old killer isn't unbelievable, but seeing an eleven year old learn to be a magic ninja in a few weeks is.

More like, almost two years. She spends 9 months at least as Cat, She was already there for one to two months before that. Then spent months blind (for one thing, burns and cutting herself down to the bone isn't going to heal itself in seconds, for another you will not be known in all the taverns of Braavos just like that)

Then of course she is no ninja, she is just a functional blind, good if untalented at acting, and without scruples to kill (anyone can kill the guys she killed.) And then after that she cheats: she uses magic and other guys' help; warging to get out of blindness (where it is noted she would fare better with eyes, she gets beaten on a regular basis), then the Kind Old Man to put a new face on her (she does nothing) and the waif to prepare poisons (she does nothing) .

For me is esier that she lerns martial arts than magic, magic seems to be a thing very difficult that you need years to attain, and compreed its costs.. no magic comes for free in ASoIaF, its a Sword without a hilt.

It's why it's stupid to waste time on martial arts. They want people who can get in and get out and kill anyone, they don't want Syrios who for all their mastery of the blade are just likely to die at the first encounter with another martial artist, if they even can approach him.

Arya knows enough of the handling of a blade, or poison to kill, that's enough. What she needs is skills to go near the target, kill it without people noticing, and get out without anyone ever suspecting her. And there acting training and magic is required.

You think a Brienne could go into the Red Keep, assassinate Cersei then get out without anyone stopping her? Yet she's still the best swordswoman in the world.

[Howlin' Howland Reed]

Jaquen was a high level assassin with magic abilitys. For me is esier that she lerns martial arts than magic, magic seems to be a thing very difficult that you need years to attain, and compreed its costs.. no magic comes for free in ASoIaF, its a Sword without a hilt.

To become a truly formidable swordsman, or any other form of martial arts, you do need several years of training. This we know. Magic is magic, though. We have no real-life equivalent, and no way of possibly knowing how long it will take to learn. Arya has already been able to make good use of what she does know, and she's had absolutely no formal training in warging whatsoever.

Donning a new-face may (or may not) be difficult to learn, but as I said earlier, the FM likely keep training for years and years and years even after they've attained full membership status. As long as Arya doesn't have the requisite skills, she can always go to the Kindly Old Man for that particular copy-paste process.

Then of course she is no ninja, she is just a functional blind, good if untalented at acting, and without scruples to kill (anyone can kill the guys she killed.)

Arya knows enough of the handling of a blade, or poison to kill, that's enough. What she needs is skills to go near the target, kill it without people noticing, and get out without anyone ever suspecting her. And there acting training and magic is required.

Maybe this whole Izembaro thing (whether it be a person, or a place) will be related to acting? Maybe Arya will join a mummer's company? It would sure as hell beat what I thought would happen when the KOM started talking about pretty faces. :ack:

[Errant Bard]

Maybe this whole Izembaro thing (whether it be a person, or a place) will be related to acting? Maybe Arya will join a mummer's company? It would sure as hell beat what I thought would happen when the KOM started talking about pretty faces. :ack:

Yeah, no, I also think it's unlikely to be mummery. FM seems to prefer a sink or swim approach to acting: you have to learn a role, you really live that life, end of the story, and if you gather details about how other people live, all the better.

She is going to be trained in the seven sighs, it's telegraphed, and it makes sense too, for sex is a really powerful tool (heck, even kunoichi used sex to kill their target. The very word may be derived from that fact.) It fails to summon much indignation in me, too: Lanna in Braavos was 12 too, nobody cried bloody murder, even if dockside whore is certainly way rougher than what the FM would intend for Arya (all considered, including the KoM offers, I think it's unlikely Martin will write actual sex before Arya gets her period, and any training, if training there is, is almost certainly going to be high-class, in a Memoirs of a Geisha kinda way.)

[Ice Turtle]

Yeah, no, I also think it's unlikely to be mummery. FM seems to prefer a sink or swim approach to acting: you have to learn a role, you really live that life, end of the story, and if you gather details about how other people live, all the better.

She is going to be trained in the seven sighs, it's telegraphed, and it makes sense too, for sex is a really powerful tool (heck, even kunoichi used sex to kill their target. The very word may be derived from that fact.) It fails to summon much indignation in me, too: Lanna in Braavos was 12 too, nobody cried bloody murder, even if dockside whore is certainly way rougher than what the FM would intend for Arya (all considered, including the KoM offers, I think it's unlikely Martin will write actual sex before Arya gets her period, and any training, if training there is, is almost certainly going to be high-class, in a Memoirs of a Geisha kinda way.)

I'm going to be nitpick but:

She was the youngest of the whores, only ten-and-four. Merry asked three times as much for her as for any of the other girls, Cat knew.

Though, there is a good chance that she has started to work as soon as she had her first flowering.

Anyway I'm almost surprised we have no mentions of Arya physically maturing besides her legs growing longer.

[jarl the climber]

It is even possible that she could be sent among the Wildings who are now in Bravos after the Lyseni ship was seized. The Kindly Man refered to it as an apprenticeship, meaning that her real training might be just begining.

[Ice Turtle]

It is even possible that she could be sent among the Wildings who are now in Bravos after the Lyseni ship was seized. The Kindly Man refered to it as an apprenticeship, meaning that her real training might be just begining.

I really hope that we will hear about those wildlings again.

[chris999]

I think that being young is what will make her an even better killer.

No one expects that she is dangerous until she stabs Needle through their heart.

[Howlin' Howland Reed]

She is going to be trained in the seven sighs, it's telegraphed, and it makes sense too, for sex is a really powerful tool (heck, even kunoichi used sex to kill their target. The very word may be derived from that fact.) It fails to summon much indignation in me, too: Lanna in Braavos was 12 too, nobody cried bloody murder, even if dockside whore is certainly way rougher than what the FM would intend for Arya (all considered, including the KoM offers, I think it's unlikely Martin will write actual sex before Arya gets her period, and any training, if training there is, is almost certainly going to be high-class, in a Memoirs of a Geisha kinda way.)

Yeah, well I'm one of those that haven't cried bloody murder over Lanna, but that doesn't mean that I'm indifferent either. I'd offer a :ack: for that as well. Maybe I'm just a bit squeamish, you know? Certain chapters in ADWD were quite difficult to read, as you might imagine.

But, I will admit that I had painted a much worse image in my mind than the one you present. Your Geisha parallel is probably very good, and leaves me with the hope that I might save some money on eye-bleach yet...

---

The following is more of general prattling, not having to do with Arya in particular, I just started thinking:

My squeamishness isn't limited to situations like the above. I cried like a baby when Weasel ran off into the woods. The questioning of the Blue Bard actually left me nauseous. Arya stabbing the Tickler was never a "fuck yeah" part for me, more of an "oh no, she's coming apart" thing. The littlest lady Stark is probably my favorite POV just because it's such a challenging read. In fact, I'd say that the reason I love these books in general is because of the emotional challenge involved in reading them. (And not just these books, of course, I just like stories that I find emotionally draining I guess is what I'm saying..?)

Sorry for this whole aside, just felt like saying it... :unsure:

[Errant Bard]

No one expects that she is dangerous until she stabs Needle through their heart.

Not a good modus operandi. As the Kind Old Man says, if the target (or anyone) knows it's you then you have failed.

But sure, some people don't think to check coins that were failed to be stolen by a kid for poison.

But, I will admit that I had painted a much worse image in my mind than the one you present. Your Geisha parallel is probably very good, and leaves me with the hope that I might save some money on eye-bleach yet...

Martin will never write rape of main characters as it exists in "chick Fantasy" (yeah yeah I know, but you know what I mean). He already has a hard time writing deaths, I can't see him have the guts to do it and follow it to its logical conclusion.

My squeamishness isn't limited to situations like the above. I cried like a baby when Weasel ran off into the woods. The questioning of the Blue Bard actually left me nauseous. Arya stabbing the Tickler was never a "fuck yeah" part for me, more of an "oh no, she's coming apart" thing. The littlest lady Stark is probably my favorite POV just because it's such a challenging read. In fact, I'd say that the reason I love these books in general is because of the emotional challenge involved in reading them. (And not just these books, of course, I just like stories that I find emotionally draining I guess is what I'm saying..?)

Meh, I'm rooting for Arya to stray from the boring training arc where she doesn't grow, change or compromise herself. So, yeah, taking charge of her sex life, or at least the attraction she can engender, even if it's not in optimal conditions and the readers act just like a father that doesn't want to even know his daughter has sex -they don't actually want characters to grow up or change-, is a big plus in my book. Doing more of what the villains do would be another plus. Actually being her own woman making her own decisions once she meets up with other players is the objective.

God I hope Martin will not keep her locked in brat mode.

[Howlin' Howland Reed]

A "training arc where she doesn't grow, change or compromise herself" does seem to defeat its own purpose... :huh:

But I know what you mean. If her coming-of-age arc ends with her being the exact same "spunky tomboy," only now she's a magical ninja assassin with her personal wolf army, but will answer with a slightly greater number when asked how old she is, that would constitute a big fat fail on GRRM's part. The psychological and emotional transformation needs to be there as well. And, yes, someone with her own objective would be a welcome change from being a noisy bundle that's passed from captor to captor...

[Maester Victor]

I remember being Arya's age and being upset that adults didn't think I could do certain things. I think Arya is more than competent enough to assassinate anyone she deems worthy. Look to Varys' mice/birds for evidence that people can be very young and deft at murder.

[jarl the climber]

I have to agree that we can't take Aryas statement that she doesn't want marriage to seriously at this point because of her age. I think putting her in a situation where she has to dress properly and act ladylike would be amusing and test her more than selling cockles wrapped up in rags and calling peiople camel cunts and consorting with cutpurses and dockside prostitutes.

[Errant Bard]

The psychological and emotional transformation needs to be there as well. And, yes, someone with her own objective would be a welcome change from being a noisy bundle that's passed from captor to captor...

Yeah, it's strange, at times it feels like GRRM cannot make the kids say "I", it's always "my father", "my family", "the enemies", etc; it would be nice for those separated kids to start thinking like teens, have ideas on what happens in the world, and plan and live for themselves. This isn't only Arya here, but also Bran and Sansa and even Jon a bit. Only Dany works well there, even if it's really overplayed (blood of the dragon anyone) and would need another actual PoV at the same place to really show it. ALl the adult PoV got this agency that the kids lack.

I remember being Arya's age and being upset that adults didn't think I could do certain things. I think Arya is more than competent enough to assassinate anyone she deems worthy. Look to Varys' mice/birds for evidence that people can be very young and deft at murder.

... Or just look at Arya, she has killed enough people. She's two hundred times as good at it than Varys' little birds, too.