[Book Spoilers] Pre-airing Discussion

[iheartseverus]

'Jaime's 'rebirth' was always one of the most powerful journeys in the books, for me. Because I really struggled with it, struggled with myself as he went from privileged, cocky self-centered asshole to degradation, total despair, loss of identity, and then slowly inch by inch, climbed his way back to becoming a man--this time a man worth knowing. All along, when things were darkest for him, I was like 'yeah, how's it feel, asshole? You threw an innocent little kid out of a tower window because he accidentally caught you f*cking your sister!' Bit by bit, Jaime grew as a man, a worthy human being, and I argued with it every step of the way... but in the end, came to respect Jaime. (whew, its taken years just to be able to say that!) I think that journey to hell and back was some of GRRM's finest writing. Ever.

[iheartseverus]

Jaime's arch maybe but the season i think it will end with...

... 3 horn blasts

And if that IS the end, the Unsullied over at TWoP will go bonkers, it'll be great to 'listen in' on their discussions. Because back when Jon and Sam were atop the Wall and Benjen's horse came galloping back alone, Sam rushed off to blow the horn, saying 'One if its a ranger returning, two if it's wildlings, three if its...' At that point, Jon interrupted him, noting that Benjen's horse did not have a rider. The Unsullied went nuts, it was hilarious! Three if its... WHAT? WHAT? We get one, we get two, but what's THREE MEAN? Three if its WHAT???

This is gonna be fun.

[Arkash]

As for the last shot of the season, I think it was confirmed on the Making GoT page that it will be really faithful to the books, but things may have change during the final editing...

But the three blasts, that would be so fucking perfect and thrilling! I got chills only by speaking of it !

Oh, by the way, I was always fascinated by those guys blowing the horns, who are they, what did they see, did they survive ?

[J_Crews]

It kind of detracts from the strength of change that it induces in him as he is going to be seen to lose to an old man, get captured by a boy, scared shitless by a long legged wolf, humiliated by everyone then beaten up by a woman not actually demonstrating any competency with his sword at any point before

Except for the entirety of the whole 1st season, where he is referred to as one of the greatest knights in the realm, is seen to be a member of the elite Kingsguard; and was literally shown on-screen making quick, effortless work of Winterfell's captain of guards and being equally matched in a sword-fight against Season 1's main protagonist/hero Eddard Stark.

Further, Robb refuses on-screen to duel him after the Battle of the Whispering Wood, admitting in front of half his army that if they fought that way, Jaime would win. Also, Jaime is named in the conversation between the two Lannister soldiers at the beginning of this past week's episode re: who is the realm's best swordsman before the Battle of Oxcross, meaning his advanced skill is common knowledge.

Anyone who missed-out on the fact that he was seven kinds of awesome with a sword hasn't been watching very closely.

[J_Crews]

And if that IS the end, the Unsullied over at TWoP will go bonkers

I love, love, love that you refer to them as the "Unsullied". :cheers: :lol:

[scurvy]

There will be blood.

Can't help but wonder how much they will change at Harrenhal. If Arya is cupbearer to Tywin she won't be kicked around by the kitchen staff, right? Perhaps the first two she will ask to be murdered will be the Tickler and Polliver?

She's going to have kill the Tickler herself with the Hound in a season or two. Too integral to the story. They can't remove that.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

I am curious how they are going to do Jaime's story. Because almost all of it takes place in his head. Maybe they'll just have a lot of dialogue between him and Brienne? That's going to be a ton of made up dialogue and I hope the writers are up to the challenge.

[iheartseverus]

I am curious how they are going to do Jaime's story. Because almost all of it takes place in his head. Maybe they'll just have a lot of dialogue between him and Brienne? That's going to be a ton of made up dialogue and I hope the writers are up to the challenge.

Hmmm, actually I see it being pretty easy to bring to the visual screen. Viewers by now have a clear, defined picture of Jaime--he's the golden man, beautiful, privileged--in his own words: There are no men like me. There is only me. Visually, take that to a stunned, shamed, dirty, painful wreck, crippled in mind and body. It should be riveting--hope its as good as it can be.

[Arrogant Bastard]

She's going to have kill the Tickler herself with the Hound in a season or two. Too integral to the story. They can't remove that.

That's a great moment from the books, but it's not really integral to the story. I agree though, I wouldn't want them to change it from the Tickler, but if they do, it doesn't really affect much other than being a letdown. I could see them killing the Tickler off this season, since already there is no Weese or Chyswick. Plus, they may not want to hold on to that actor for another season, or likely two, since his deaht won't happen until season four probably.

[TyrionFan57]

I literally adjusted all the brightness/color options on my tv because so many of the great scenes are so dark I can't see anything. I originally watched last weeks episode in the bedroom and had no idea Greywind made an appearance until I watched on the large screen. I really hope Blackwater isn't the same way.

Same with me! It just so happens that the last 4 Sundays have been really sunny here in SW Washington (and we barely get 4 sunny days each year...almost true), causing a lot of glare and not being able to see any of the darker scenes. I didn't see Grey Wind either until I watched it again on HBOgo. I almost jumped out of my chair. The scenes at Harrenhal were very hard to see as well. Hope it rains here when Ep. 9 is shown.

[Davos55]

I am definitely curious about who Arya chooses for her "wishes" with Jaqen. Obviously they have cut out Chiswyck and Weese, so they are cut out, but who will take their place? It better NOT be Tickler or Polliver. The fight at the inn is one of my favorites in the series. I would be devastated if it was altered.

[TyrionFan57]

It was, more or less, made abundantly clear in interviews months ago that a good part of Jaime's arc from ASoS was being brought forward into this season. They can't justify paying the actor's salary, just to have him sit in chains and make witty quips at people. He'll be freed in ep. 7 and I'm betting...

... the season ends with him losing his hand.

It could be. But the Bloody Mummers cut off Jaime's hand and I don't think they will be shown this season. Also, Jaime is with Brienne, on their way to King's Landing, when he gets his hand chopped off. So Catelyn and Brienne would have to make it all the way back to Robb's camp (since there is no Riverrun as yet), Catelyn releases Jaime, the sends Brienne with Jaime to King's Landing. There would have to be a bunch of changes for all of this to take place before the end of the season. And who would they have cut off his hand, if not the Bloody Mummers? Curious how all this will play out on screen.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

Hmmm, actually I see it being pretty easy to bring to the visual screen. Viewers by now have a clear, defined picture of Jaime--he's the golden man, beautiful, privileged--in his own words: There are no men like me. There is only me. Visually, take that to a stunned, shamed, dirty, painful wreck, crippled in mind and body. It should be riveting--hope its as good as it can be.

Yes, but outward physical breakdown it's same as his inner change. Jaime reflects on the young man he used to be, the one who wanted to be Arthur Dayne, but ended up being the smiling knight. He has his dream and goes back to save Brienne. He reflects on the blank pages of the King's Guard annals. All those things takes place in his head.

[SerArthurHeath]

I agree. For me the most riveting aspect of Jaime's change is that we get an insight into who Jaime used to be before he decided that there was no good in this world and no point in being "good" as it gets you as otracised as being evil. That all he has is his skill with a sword, and that's all he can rely on, believe in but it's so good that it is all he needs. We see all of that taken away- he isn't just someone good with a sword, it is his entire identity, a persona he has created himself and utterly become and when he loses it he starts to head back to what he wanted to be before he decided it couldn't exist or survive. That is going to be very hard to show on screen if we never learn what Jaime wanted to be and the feelings that drove him to self-loathing instead.

On another note, if that's their attempt to make Jaime a swordsman before he loses it all, it sucks. Show don't tell, especially on a visual medium with no privileged access to private thoughts and where it is very easy to forget words but images will last a lot longer. He killed Jory quickly but as he's basically a mook it's pretty irrelevant. He loses to Ned in the eyes of the Unsullied (they all were sure he was going to lose and that's why the guard intervened). He gets captured and they mention in passing that he killed 10 men. So what? Missed opportunity to demonstrate what happened in the books where Jaime makes Robb's tactical superiority nearly redundant by almost cutting down Robb. Robb with nothing to lose refuses to duel him- of course Robb would lose, he's a teenager in his first battle! This Kingsguard are specifically non-skilled Lannister cronies. Now he is going to be seen, without the insight into how both characters are feeling and without the emphasis on Jaime fighting bound and after months (seems like days at most in the season) of capture that in the book left him underweight (clearly hasn't been malnutrition in the series), to lose to a woman in his next fight.

I KNOW we only got to hear about Jaime (though in less uncertain) terms in the book but it's a different medium, one where you can tell people things rather than one where the emphasis should be on showing. We also have to have points hammered home. We've had 2-3 added scenes just to emphasis that Joffrey is unpleasant and LF is a slimy douche. So cutting out canon (if unseen) scenes that establish Jaime's most important character aspect at this point is really stupid. It's just if Jaime lost his ability to fight at this point I would think"that's annoying but you're alive and the eldest son of the richest and most powerful house in Westeros" not "you have to change every single thing you have thought about yourself for the past 15 years because of the choices you made"

[The Crowned Griffin]

I am definitely curious about who Arya chooses for her "wishes" with Jaqen. Obviously they have cut out Chiswyck and Weese, so they are cut out, but who will take their place? It better NOT be Tickler or Polliver. The fight at the inn is one of my favorites in the series. I would be devastated if it was altered.

I think most likely they just modify it to one kill (disappointing). Unless if she meets some new characters who replace those two while working as the cupbearer.

[Targaryen Kaiser]

I am definitely curious about who Arya chooses for her "wishes" with Jaqen. Obviously they have cut out Chiswyck and Weese, so they are cut out, but who will take their place? It better NOT be Tickler or Polliver. The fight at the inn is one of my favorites in the series. I would be devastated if it was altered.

It's probably going to be the Tickler followed by Polliver. As much as I too liked the incident in the inn and the revengeful sequence of stabbings by Arya, it isn't a scene important enough to the plot. And there's no reason to worry. The preview of episode 15 pretty much confirmed there are going to be 3 death wishes like the book.

[Zappotack]

It's probably going to be the Tickler followed by Polliver. As much as I too liked the incident in the inn and the revengeful sequence of stabbings by Arya, it isn't a scene important enough to the plot. And there's no reason to worry. The preview of episode 15 pretty much confirmed there are going to be 3 death wishes like the book.

The Tickler wasn't that memorable here so if they do her inn scene later non-fans will probably forgot who he was...

[Lady Lilac]

I think most likely they just modify it to one kill (disappointing). Unless if she meets some new characters who replace those two while working as the cupbearer.

Changing it to one kill is highly unlikely. We already see Jaquen in the preview saying "Three lives were taken from the Red God. We'll have to give them back".

So there will definitely be three deaths.

[Arkash]

Well, if they stay faithful, there shall be more than three deaths!

Weasel soup!

[SerArthurHeath]

In episode 6, Arya gets a surprise visitor apparently. The only characters I can think of are LF on his way back to KL (but he would recognise Arya) or... Bolton! So I think Weasel soup will be in episode 6