Sansa and LF's land grab!

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

On Bronze Yohn, better to do nothing, without the other Lords Declarant he's weak and killing him would only arouse suspicion, better to get rid of his supports, the people that were amenable to Petyr in the confrontation and who already have people invested in their deaths, that way no one can claim that he's doing in his enemies, something he couldn't handle as well as strong nobles or knights.

Arouse suspicion? Did Euron arouse suspicion when he drowned Lord Botley is a cask of seawater?

[Stoned Dragon]

Cersei is a good point of reference but not in the way you suggest. Cersei has authority as Queen Regent but she isn't the mother of two kings. She's the bother of three bastards from her brother. Something which virtually everyone knows but ignores because it suits their purpose. Surely Harry Swift has less authority than Cersei, Ned Stark has less authority as well, feel free to ask his disembodied head, if you don't believe me. Tommen has less authority than Joffrey and Lady Hornwood had all the authority in the world except the authority not to eat her fingers.

No one's authority is accepted automatically or absolutely.

He already has, as the failure of the Lords Declarant and their decreasing influence and number indicates.

You don't say? The Game of Thrones is about nature the of power and authority? Who would have thunk it?

We can't ask his disembodied head because Cercei didn't have the power to stop her son/brother from cutting it off...

[Stoned Dragon]

Arouse suspicion? Did Euron arouse suspicion when he drowned Lord Botley is a cask of seawater?

The Iron Islands' aren't the Eeyrie, they pay the iron price...which I think is better anyway, but that's just me.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

We can't ask his disembodied head because Cercei didn't have the power to stop her son/brother from cutting it off...

she did, if she'd known about it advance...besides it was probably Petyr anyway...A dead Ned head tells no tales. No way to know for sure though, ask Janos Slynts disembodied head :lmao: Or Joffrey's ghost :lmao:

[Castel]

Arouse suspicion? Did Euron arouse suspicion when he drowned Lord Botley is a cask of seawater?

Euron was strong he could do what he wanted. Petyr is barely Lord Regent, that shit won't fly as easily.

[jarl the climber]

Euron was strong he could do what he wanted. Petyr is barely Lord Regent, that shit won't fly as easily.

Actually he couldn't do what ever he wanted, that why he had to drown the fellow in water, he wasn't allowed to spill blood.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Euron was strong he could do what he wanted. Petyr is barely Lord Regent, that shit won't fly as easily.

He was strong? He was one guy with one ship. Victarion commanded a whole fleet.

[Wyman's Man]

He was strong? He was one guy with one ship. Victarion commanded a whole fleet.

I think the Dragon horn and the promise of Westeros changed everything.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

I think the Dragon horn and the promise of Westeros changed everything.

He did that after he drowned Lord Botley

[Castel]

He was strong? He was one guy with one ship. Victarion commanded a whole fleet.

And Euron not only sat the Seastone Chair but was drawing more men to him, and he had the best claim, not to mention that Victarion is...bound, by honor or whatever, Euron was his liege at the time, until that priest started playing politics. Petyr has no claim of his own, is an outsider and not well liked,he has no support from the Iron Throne, he has no men of his own, or at least none that can stand against the Lords Declarant if they flare up again, so he has to tread lightly.

[Stoned Dragon]

she did, if she'd known about it advance...besides it was probably Petyr anyway...A dead Ned head tells no tales. No way to know for sure though, ask Janos Slynts disembodied head :lmao: Or Joffrey's ghost :lmao:

Haha!

No seriously, she didn't have the power to stop it. When your power requires advanced notice to work then it isn't exactly power...It's more like, "People will do what I say, so long as things happen that aren't expected. Thankfully this is Westeros and things typically aren out of control...

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Haha!

No seriously, she didn't have the power to stop it. When your power requires advanced notice to work then it isn't exactly power...It's more like, "People will do what I say, so long as things happen that aren't expected. Thankfully this is Westeros and things typically aren out of control...

No. seriously. Joffrey said "off with his head, Janos Slynt and Iyllin Payne did it. There wasn't anything to be done. But Jamie was able to tell the Kings guard to ignore Tommen if he wants to kill his horse. Just as Stannis intends to kill Mance but fails, it really has nothing to do with power. Or rather, in this case knowledge was power.

[Stoned Dragon]

No. seriously. Joffrey said "off with his head, Janos Slynt and Iyllin Payne did it. There wasn't anything to be done. But Jamie was able to tell the Kings guard to ignore Tommen if he wants to kill his horse. Just as Stannis intends to kill Mance but fails, it really has nothing to do with power. Or rather, in this case knowledge was power.

Jaime as the Head of the Kingsguard tells them to ignore Tommen, and because he has the power as their leader to issue instructions to his men. Joffrey used his power as King to not pardon Ned and order his execution, specifically alleging that he would not do as his mother/fiance wished because they were women and he was not. Cercei couldn't stop him because she doesn't have the power as a Dowager Queen to overrule the king, she didn't have the power as a mother to stop her adolescent son. Cercei did not have the authority to really do anything until every other rival male influence was disqualified (her father murdered, her brother in exile, and her other brother/lover maimed, Kevan uninterested unless she returned home) - and even then her power existed only because Tommen was too young to discard her.

Cercei was surprised and didn't have the knowledge necessary to use her influence to direct the outcome beforehand, but being able to influence an outcome and having power over it are two entirely different things.

[Castel]

Jaime as the Head of the Kingsguard tells them to ignore Tommen, and because he has the power as their leader to issue instructions to his men. Joffrey used his power as King to not pardon Ned and order his execution, specifically alleging that he would not do as his mother/fiance wished because they were women and he was not. Cercei couldn't stop him because she doesn't have the power as a Dowager Queen to overrule the king, she didn't have the power as a mother to stop her adolescent son. Cercei did not have the authority to really do anything until every other rival male influence was disqualified (her father murdered, her brother in exile, and her other brother/lover maimed, Kevan uninterested unless she returned home) - and even then her power existed only because Tommen was too young to discard her.

Cercei was surprised and didn't have the knowledge necessary to use her influence to direct the outcome beforehand, but being able to influence an outcome and having power over it are two entirely different things.

Technically as Regent she does have the authority. The problem of course is that if the king is old enough, the Regent's power can be limited by the fact that everyone knows that the king will be in power in a few years and so they may go with him. In the case of Tywin, well, at first he was the one with the army so he called the shots, then Cersei basically rolled over, force of habit, but things could have been much stickier. What happened here was just a quick end around, if Cersei had had time she could have commanded the men not to do it, but Joff played it too well, and sycophants like Janos Slynt were too willing to help.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Jaime as the Head of the Kingsguard tells them to ignore Tommen, and because he has the power as their leader to issue instructions to his men. Joffrey used his power as King to not pardon Ned and order his execution, specifically alleging that he would not do as his mother/fiance wished because they were women and he was not. Cercei couldn't stop him because she doesn't have the power as a Dowager Queen to overrule the king, she didn't have the power as a mother to stop her adolescent son. Cercei did not have the authority to really do anything until every other rival male influence was disqualified (her father murdered, her brother in exile, and her other brother/lover maimed, Kevan uninterested unless she returned home) - and even then her power existed only because Tommen was too young to discard her. Cercei was surprised and didn't have the knowledge necessary to use her influence to direct the outcome beforehand, but being able to influence an outcome and having power over it are two entirely different things.

But of course influence is all the power anyone ever has.

“Oh, I think not,” Varys said, swirling the wine in his cup. “Power is a curious thing, my lord. Perchance you have considered the riddle I posed you that day in the inn?”

“It has crossed my mind a time or two,” Tyrion admitted. “The king, the priest, the rich man-who lives and who dies? Who will the swordsman obey? It’s a riddle without an answer, or rather, too many answers. All depends on the man with the sword.”

“And yet he is no one,” Varys said. “He has neither crown nor gold nor favor of the gods, only a piece of pointed steel.”

“That piece of steel is the power of life and death.”

“Just so... yet if it is the swordsmen who rule us in truth, why do we pretend our kings hold the power?

Why should a strong man with a sword ever obey a child king like Joffrey, or a wine-sodden oaf like his father?

“

“Because these child kings and drunken oafs can call other strong men, with other swords.”

“Then these other swordsmen have the true power.

Or do they?

Whence came their swords?

Why do they obey?

” Varys smiled. “Some say knowledge is power. Some tell us that all power comes from the gods. Others say it derives from law. Yet that day on the steps of Baelor’s Sept, our godly High Septon and the lawful Queen Regent and your everso-knowledgeable servant were as powerless as any cobbler or cooper in the crowd.

Who truly killed Eddard Stark do you think?

Joffrey, who gave the command?

Ser Ilyn Payne, who swung the sword?

Or... another?

”

Tyrion cocked his head sideways. “Did you mean to answer your damned riddle, or only to make my head ache worse?”

Varys smiled. “

Here, then.

Power resides where men believe it resides

.

No more and no less.

”

“So power is a mummer’s trick?”

“A shadow on the wall,” Varys murmured, “yet shadows can kill. And ofttimes a very small man can cast a very large shadow.”

Tyrion smiled. “Lord Varys, I am growing strangely fond of you. I may kill you yet, but I think I’d feel sad about it.”

"There is only one way under high heaven to get anybody to do anything. Did you ever stop to think of

that? Yes, just one way. And that is by making the other person want to do it.

Remember, there is no other way.

Of course, you can make someone want to give you his watch by sticking a revolver in his ribs. You

can make your employees give you cooperation—until your back is turned—by threatening to fire them. You

can make a child do what you want it to do by a whip or a threat. But these crude methods have sharply

undesirable repercussions.

The only way I can get you to do anything is by giving you what you want"

-

Dale Carnegie

http://books.google.com/books

Cersei is not a Dowager Queen she is the Queen Regent and Joffrey is in his minority. So she certainly had the authority to stop Joffrey, if not the power. And Ned was Joffrey's regent and the hand of the king as well. Yet, Cersei had originally planned execute Ned and had Varys not influenced both Ned and Cersei, Ned would have already been headless.

Of course, Cersei has both authority and power over Tyrion and it is Tyrion who must out maneuver Cersei through roundabout means of subversion. Jamie, doesn't really have authority at all and the King's order should out rank the Lord Commander of the King's guard. Surely if Robert had order Jamie to kill Barristan, not contravening order from Selmy would stayed Jamie's hand. The power Tywin has over his daughter is physiological and not derived from anything but personal gravitas.

“Has father lost his senses? Or did you forge this letter?” She read it once more, with mounting annoyance. “Why would he inflict you on me? I wanted him to come himself.” She crushed Lord Tywin’s letter in her fingers.

“I am Joffrey’s regent, and I sent him a royal command!”

“

And he ignored you,” Tyrion pointed out. “

He has quite a large army

,

he can do that

. Nor is he the first. Is he?”

Cersei’s mouth tightened. He could see her color rising. “

If I name this letter a forgery and tell them to throw you in a dungeon, no one will ignore that, I promise you.”

He was walking on rotten ice now, Tyrion knew. One false step and he would plunge through.

“No one,” he agreed amiably, “least of all our father. The one with the army. But why should you want to throw me into a dungeon, sweet sister, when I’ve come all this long way to help you?”

“I do not require your help. It was our father’s presence that I commanded.”

“Yes,” he said quietly, “but it’s Jaime you want.”

His sister fancied herself subtle, but he had grown up with her. He could read her face like one of his favorite books, and what he read now was rage, and fear, and despair. “Jaime-”

“-is my brother no less than yours,” Tyrion interrupted. “Give me your support and I promise you, we will have Jaime freed and returned to us unharmed.”

Of course the fact that Kevan could only ask Cersei to go to Casterly Rock tells you all you need to know.

Tommen? Why would should Cersei have any power from a child born of incest of her and her brother who himself had given up all claims of inheritance? Surely any inherent power Tommen has, it must then extend from Cersie.