[Book Spoilers] EP 207 Discussion

[boojam]

Note to David Benioff and D.B. Weiss: For God's Sake stop using Ian Whyte as Ser Gregor Clegane!

The camera even looks as if it's trying to hide him! Plus his voice sounds dubbed. He's a great White Walker. Send him north!

We don't even need the Mountain in this Season.

As for the carping about about Emilia Clarke. She seemed fine to me in The North Remembers and The Night Lands (Alan Taylor directed those, but went by lightning fast!) (After all Clarke was one of the surprise stars of last year)... the I lay the problems at Benioff and Weiss's feet, it's their baby. Nothing wrong with Dany becoming more assertive, I thought George didn't do enough of this in the novel. But why does she have to spiel such fire and brimstone when she is smart enough to know she does not have an army and the dragons are too small to be effective? Logic is taking a holiday within her dialog. That's the teleplay writer's job.

With Gemma Whelan (if we really see her again) and Carice van Houten it's take on character, demeanor and projection... I don't blame it on the actresses. Tho lately van Houten has been given some better latitude.

From here on out it's Alan Taylor and the well regarded Neil Marshal.

And George and D&D , maybe the next three teleplays will fix all sins?

[byironnotbygold]

Ygritte actress is pretty good to me. When my wife came down and saw her on the TV, she said "You're watching Downton Abbey without me?" LOL Same actress, not quite the same role....or world for that matter.

[Knight of Ashes]

I'm glad someone agrees. I've taken most of the changes in stride. You know, as long as it leads to the same end. It's kept things fresh for those of us familiar with the story and while I don't always agree with the changes, they still work. But this one has me flustered. Jaime's my favorite character after all! I cannot imagine him actually doing this. Yeah, he's done some horrible stuff. I'll never deny that. But this specifically felt entirely out of character for him. He just... isn't all scheming like that.

After reading book three and four, I kind of started viewing book two, in regards to Jaime, as kind of a cooling off period. You hate him so much in the first book, but then you barely see him in the second, and in the one scene he's in, he doesn't really do anything besides mock Cat (which is kind of funny) and relate a story that makes his killing of Aerys more understandable. I'm not saying that this is what makes him likable, but all the time away from him helps to cool the anger one feels towards him. Now it's just been rekindled all over again! I was already worried that his redemption might not get across so well on television as it did in the books. Now I'm more concerned than ever. I immediately told my brother who was watching the show with me that Jaime did NOT do that in the books. My parents who have also read them were also annoyed.

Yeah, I haven't minded a lot of the changes they've made but it's quite different if it's one's favorite character. They seem to be going in the opposite direction with Jaime (more villainous) and Cersei (more sympathetic). I shall adjust to it if I must 'cause I enjoy some of the reinterpretations. Though, non-book readers are missing out on Ultra-cold Tywin, whispery Roose etc. but at least they're spared bat-shit crazy Cersei.

[Katydid]

Jeez. Jaime admitted he f-d Cersei, what the hell is going on?

Actually, that's canon, taken straight from the book - from his conversation w/Cat:

Not knowing how long this game might continue, Catelyn wasted no time. “Are you Joffrey’s father?”

“You would never ask unless you knew the answer.”

“I want it from your own lips.”

He shrugged. “Joffrey is mine. As are the rest of Cersei’s brood, I suppose.”

“You admit to being your sister’s lover?”

“I’ve always loved my sister, and you owe me two answers. Do all my kin still live?”

<SNIP>

His smile cut. “I’ve never lain with any woman but Cersei. In my own way, I have been truer than your Ned ever was.

[Mummer's wind]

Perhaps Jamie's even-more-villainous TV persona will set him up for an even stronger redemption arc.

That said, why the hell would he kill Cleos when beating him up would accomplish the same goal?

[mpbarnes]

why the hell would he kill Cleos when beating him up would accomplish the same goal?

Actually it wouldn't, he'd have another person to worry about, either having to take him along, or yelling out to call even more guards. All he needed was a quick distraction and enough noise to bring the Karstark kid into the cell...pure Jaime.

[Ser Hippie]

Really? Would you prefer that we are introduced to a Karstark who already has a grudge against Jaime? Or that they had introduced Karstark last season just to have his son killed, and then had to awkwardly remind us of it now? Changes like this are the kind that are absolutely necessary for an adaptation. It was the only way to make Karstark's story work.

Karstark was introduced last season in the "King in the North" scene, actually, he just wasn't named to the non-reader audience from what I remember.

Anyway, I didn't find Torrhen Karstark dying to be the problem, I just found it strange that they had him acting as a prison guard. It has nothing to do with the books vs. TV show adaptation argument that other people are having, it just didn't make sense to me that a highborn man would be doing a common soldier's job. I'd have preferred if he died, say, catching Jaime during the escape, even offscreen.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Ser Hippie

[servethe_Realm]

yeah I actually fell asleep during this episode and I am a rabid fan! Cant even really recall anything from it, I'll have to re-watch with eyes wide open. The fast cut scenes are killing me. and I want more San/San!

[Stanmore]

Actually it wouldn't, he'd have another person to worry about, either having to take him along, or yelling out to call even more guards. All he needed was a quick distraction and enough noise to bring the Karstark kid into the cell...pure Jaime.

So he should have beaten him senseless then. Having Jaime set out to kill him was for added shock value, nothing more.

[Knight of Ashes]

non-book readers

Err, I meant viewers who haven't red the books.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Knight of Ashes

[DirtyRobes]

Didn't read the book?

If you read the aforementioned quote, the lack of understanding is in relation to the Other Posters statement about it being horrible to shoot on-screen. Which imo is crazy, just a shot of a giant chain being made or a mention from someone about the blacksmiths being held up by the hand. Also I think its clear that ive read them.

It also seems that atleast a few people here think this is actually an implausible thing or that it just couldn't work. This is actually a Real military defense tactic from the middle ages to protect harbor's from invading ships.

In the Blackwater its effectiveness was due to after it being decimated by wildfire, whatever ships that might have survived(however intact) to possibly run ashore or even to escape to fight another day, were ripped to shreds & those resulting deaths would have been catastrophic.

[PrinceRhaegar]

I liked episode very much, but what got me worried is that i cried in Tyrion & Cersei scene. o.O

I also cried at last scene, but that was to be expected, coz it was so emotinal.

I also liked Jaime's escape & confrontation with Cat, Pyat Pree & Co, Jorah visiting Quaithe, and Yiggrite.

Iceland and Harenhall view were stunning.

Cant wait for the next episode.

[BlackTalon]

yes, the scenes are so short ... it gets really noticeable.

I am not so sure what to make of the new Mountain. He is definitely less impressive than the guy from season one, but from the little I saw of S1 Mountain I got the impression he was a truly horrible actor. That cartoon glower when he opened hs visor to bow before king Robert, and how he shouted "sword" and thenstomped off at the end of that scene ... it all seemed so artificial and affected. Might be the new Mountain was the better choice.

[Darth Visenya]

I loved the scene between Arya and Tywin this week, they are great.

[StannisandDaeny]

Actually, that's canon, taken straight from the book - from his conversation w/Cat:

Not knowing how long this game might continue, Catelyn wasted no time. “Are you Joffrey’s father?”

“You would never ask unless you knew the answer.”

“I want it from your own lips.”

He shrugged. “Joffrey is mine. As are the rest of Cersei’s brood, I suppose.”

“You admit to being your sister’s lover?”

“I’ve always loved my sister, and you owe me two answers. Do all my kin still live?”

<SNIP>

His smile cut. “I’ve never lain with any woman but Cersei. In my own way, I have been truer than your Ned ever was.

Under pressure, yes, it makes less sense he would simply decide to admit it by himself to make an argument to defend his honour (I f- my sister, har har, look at me I so honorable) when Cat hasn't even posed the question. There was more trouble with the dialogue, for instance

Theon: "After all, it's only just a game!" No, no it's not! In the next scene you're explaining to Luwin how important this whole thing is to you!

Brienne: "Threatening my lady is an act of treason!" When did Karstark threaten her? It should've been 'insulting my King is an act of treason' since he was referring to Robb.

No, they've done a good job so far but a large part of this episode bugs me, and mostly not for these little things I've mentioned.

[Mr. E]

It also seems that atleast a few people here think this is actually an implausible thing or that it just couldn't work. This is actually a Real military defense tactic from the middle ages to protect harbor's from invading ships.

.

I, too, am a bit nonplussed by people saying the chain's implausible. Hell, the United States used a chain boom in its Revolution! It was stretched out across the Hudson where the U.S. Military Academy at West Point stands today. They only fell out of efficacy when, you know, metal ships driven by something other than oars and wind took over naval tactics.

[Princess of the Night]

I hate what they did to Jamie. When he killed his cousin to get away, after that talk. That's definitely not Jamie. But they did change quite a few characters, compared to those in books, so..

I love Arya and Tywin! I really do! These two are my favorite characters in the books, and I love what they did in the show. It's perfect.

Oh, and Jon and Ygritte, it was perfect. I didn't really like her in the books, but they are amazing together. Great performances!

Oh, and Shae! I never liked her, but after what she did for Sansa.. I don't know, but that was nice.

[Isabella Stark]

That's really interesting that the chain boom was a real military strategy.

I'm inclined to think we will have The Chain. In the episode where Theon arrives at Pike, you see a chain being raised across the harbor (in the background of a Theon scene). Foreshadowing I think.

[StannisandDaeny]

It'll probably be used as a surprise to viewers as well. Like, the wildfire's innefective, the chain raises and catches ships on it so they can't move, the wildfire becomes effective and Tyrion gets the credit (at least from the audience...).

[Ser Wun Wun]

This is a long thread, so my apologies if this has already been brought up. But, did anyone else think Tywin made Arya eat that food because he thought it may have been poisoned? He made it clear in that scene that he thought the wolfsbane that killed Amory Lorch was meant for him.

Tywin doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who would just give food away out of the kindness of his heart like that.