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teemo

[Book Spoilers] Nitpick without repercussion!

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I was rocking back and forth this episode yelling "NO! WHY!?" when they kept unnecessarily changing things and adding plots (missing dragons, Jon/Ygritte getting lost together).

Can we even nitpick anymore? The show is changing radically this season. Why? Have the writers said? Last season was very faithful to the books, so why has this season gone off into completely new scenes/dialogue/plots; with characters being offed before their time like Amory Lorch, the Tickler, and Sir Roderick.

And then there are the little changes. Why wasn't it Theon's idea to take Winterfell? And now that guy (Dagmar?) seems to be calling the shots. Did he say "pay the iron price" in reference to killing Roderick? Is that even how the term is used? Why did Quorin declare Ygritte had to die?

Also, too often in the show has the rationality of the "kings/queens" been questioned; almost like the thoughts of the audience are being put into the show. But the books never had logically fallacies like "Aegon had no right the throne when he took it" being spoken, unlike the show.

I'm just disappointed this year as the writers' egos have grown enormously and they clearly feel they can do a better job than GRRM.

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  • I find it hard to believe that Tywin would be that talkative to his cupbearer. And wouldn't he become like....hugely suspicious that she can read? Also, Tywin smiles and yells in the show. Not doing those things is one of his trademarks in the books.

Smiles? Lord Tywin Lannister smiles?

I think not. Watch the scenes again, carefully. Pause the play at any point where you think that Tywin is smiling, or laughing, or chuckling, and look very carefully. He most definitely is not smiling! At most there is a wry grimmace that threatens to smile, a threat that is “terrible to behold”.

“The Crag is not so far from Tarbeck Hall and Castamere,” Tyrion pointed out. “You’d think the Westerlings might have ridden past and seen the lesson there.”

“Mayhaps they have,” Lord Tywin said. “They are well aware of Castamere, I promise you.”

“Could the Westerlings and Spicers be such great fools as to believe the wolf can defeat the lion?”

Every once in a very long while, Lord Tywin Lannister would actually threaten to smile; he never did, but the threat alone was terrible to behold.
“The greatest fools are ofttimes more clever than the men who laugh at them,” he said, and then, “You will marry Sansa Stark, Tyrion. And soon.”

That’s all that happens here, too. Each time it happens, it is frightening in the extreme. And it is nothing more than a threat. There was never a smile.

As for yelling, Tywin indeed in this episode raises his voice once, and he also here yells once. But come now, I do believe we can excuse his yelling: his bannerman had just been murdered (nearly) in Tywin’s own presence. Calling for guards in a true yell was completely appropriate at that point. How else are they to have heard him, since they were demonstrably so far from their posts that they have just let Ser Amory be murdered at Lord Tywin’s very threshhold? Surely that deserves a yell!

As for the other, Tywin raises his voice in a pique of anger bordering on rage that the blundering stupidity of oneof his illiterate bannerman had nearly put his son’s life in jeopardy. This is the very same thing that made him rage in the first season: “THEY HAVE MY SON!

Perhaps you confuse a commanding voice for yelling, and perhaps you confuse smiling with its terrible threat. If you carefully review all his scenes, as I have myself just now done for this very purpose, you will see quite clearly Tywin never smiled nor laughed, and his voice was raised in exactly the same situation as once he had done so before.

There’s nothing to see here. Move along now. These are not the smiles you are looking for. You want smiling? Look at Littlefinger’s scene. Littlefinger smiles, and wholly inappropriately, too.

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Tywin smiling is INEXCUSABLE

That COMPLETELY goes against his character in the book. UTTERLY AND COMPLETELY

That

never

happened.

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Well, I don't mind the Lorch death except for the execution (haha) of it. They are obviously not going to have a bear on the show, heck, they probably won't even have the brave companions on the shows. So they might as well have Arya kill him. But the manner of his death is just so unrealistic.

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I don't know. It looks like smiling to me. We can argue over what constitutes a smile, but that seems pointless. *shrug*

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Jon and Ygritte was the most annoying for me, that and the Spice Trader in Qarth.

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Ummm....

Jon not wearing a hat while everybody else wears hats with ear flaps or Inuit style parka clothing while trudging across glaciers?

And his hair so full of body and luxuriant rather than matted down in snow and ice while trudging around hatless in said conditions?

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It did seem like Tywin smiled in that episode....

Going back to re watch his scenes....will report later....

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Jon and Ygritte was the most annoying for me, that and the Spice Trader in Qarth.

I would have had a problem, but the scene was not far out of character like they have done with Littlefinger.

I don't know. It looks like smiling to me. We can argue over what constitutes a smile, but that seems pointless. *shrug*

Here you see Charles Dance smiling.

Here you see him as Tywin, "threatening to smile" (my opinion).

^Sorry for how dark it is. It's a direct screenshot from the episode on HBOgo. And I just noticed that you can see me increasing the brightness. Oops haha!

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Well, I don't mind the Lorch death except for the execution (haha) of it. They are obviously not going to have a bear on the show, heck, they probably won't even have the brave companions on the shows. So they might as well have Arya kill him. But the manner of his death is just so unrealistic.

Jaqen is a faceless man, one who's trade holds a vast fount of secrecy. I think it's a bit odd to have realistic means of assassination as a prerequisite.

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Why does Sandor Clegane have a sword across his back AND another in his hand when he carries back Sansa from the riot?

When I saw it I said: "Ouch, I hope she doesn't get a hit in the face by the sword, wait, The Hound has two swords?"

I guess he could have picked one up from somewhere. The fact that he had a sword instead of the dagger could be a continuity mistake--a personal pet peeve of mine (hence the nitpicking).

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Why does Sandor Clegane have a sword across his back AND another in his hand when he carries back Sansa from the riot?

When I saw it I said: "Ouch, I hope she doesn't get a hit in the face by the sword, wait, The Hound has two swords?"

I guess he could have picked one up from somewhere. The fact that he had a sword instead of the dagger could be a continuity mistake--a personal pet peeve of mine (hence the nitpicking).

My friend noticed that too! My excuse was he probably carries a one-handed sword on his belt when he needs his other hand, and another across his back for when shit gets real.

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IT WAS A TYPO - I do NOT believe that D&D are better writers than GRRM.

Oh, shit. :D Well, I'm glad to know that, and I withdraw the "you are dead to me" comment, hehe.

This thread warms my heart. <3

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Nothing to do with Jon or Tywin, but did you notice in the riot scene, the death of the High Septon ? It looks like the crowd is eating him... And I still don't know how they got his arm off so fast.

Btw, nothing justifies the lack of horses. It reminds me of the crapiest scene of S01 : Renly, Selmy & Robert hunting, alone, with only one spear. They should have shot the riot scene in another way, manage to put horses in it.

For the other characters :

Jon looks a little (?) stupid with his execution and his spooning.

Ygritte is fine, I've fallen in love with the character already.

Tywin can IMHO smile like this but it was a little too much for just a serving girl (and the sweet memories part, wtf ...).

The whole Talysa/Westerling thing is ... damn crap (since the beginning). It makes Robb look like a teenager, in a bad way. That and the "Oh, my mom just came back with a huge lady-knight from an enemy king's camp, in which she saw the said king being murdered by a shadow ... I will first tell her about my crush !!"

The Hound was ... a little too strong

Theon is great and so was the beheading scene but even if we can guess that Rodrick let some men stationned in Thorren's Square and just got back with a few men who got ambushed ... Not a hint in all the episodes, just the same that for the "they killed Rodrick" Raven to Robb.

And anyway, Theon has ... what ? 30 men ? And he sends enough men outside the castle to capture Rodrick ? Something is wrong.

And Osha is ridiculous ! She plays 4 roles ... It just sucks ... Erotico-Mystico-Schemo-Wildling.

Dany actually sucks in this episode, the actress is great but ... Why turn Daenerys of the house Targaryen,

Queen of the Andals and the Rhoynar and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and

Khaleesi

of the Great Grass Sea

,

into a childish whiny teenage girl ?

Come on ... The girl got sold to a Khal, had a baby, lost the baby, lost the Khal, Had Dragons, travelled through the Dothraki Sea and the Red Waste with only a handful of men ... And she repeats every 10 minutes :

"I will take what is mine, with FIRE AND BLOOD !§§!".

They killed Lorche in a stupid way. The Dart ... Come on !

E05 was sure better than this one, even if it does have interesting scenes.

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snip

Hey new best friend, get out of my head. I agree with just about everything you said.

Except I like any screen time that they give the Hound. I love the character and just want to see him as much as possible.

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Jaqen is a faceless man, one who's trade holds a vast fount of secrecy. I think it's a bit odd to have realistic means of assassination as a prerequisite.

But that's also taught to Arya in Braavos, it's the FM super stealth that is their secret weapon.... we are not sure yet what their other secrets are.

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To Great Dayne and others;

I would put forward that Tywin has his suspicions of Arya being high born, thus the questions. But I doubt he thinks Arya is actually a Stark. He see's her as no threat at all in any real sense, but with her dressing as a lad and obviously being sharp of wit and being a natural survivor he likes her, he can admire in her certain traits and characteristics that he can relate to. Cersi isn't clever, she's got a shallow mind, but she's pretty and that's what she was there for, Jamie was his perfect boy, with whom he had a flaw (his apparent dyslexia) and metaphorically beat it out of him. Tyrion is a curse from the Gods maybe (in his eyes)? He is an out and out patriarch and as so needs to be a fatherly figure to someone. Not in a heavy handed way, not in a way that he actually cares about the cup-girl, but he sees himself as a leader, teacher and such and as so he uses this cup girl to full fill his self appointed role.

Plus he speaks honestly and openly to his cup-girl as A) She wouldn't dare tell anyone B)Everyone needs someone to talk to and it's lonely at the top.

I've been getting this impression too.

The actress playing Ygritte is making her more likable than in the books, in my opinion, but I don't like the setup- as others have pointed out, it makes Jon seem... petulant? arrogant? a turncloak? I can't settle on the correct description, but I get the feeling that others are feeling the same way. It's not sitting well with me.

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If I am not mistaken the Dog left some guy alive when he rescued Sansa

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WRT Dany, being a petulant teenager, in the books occassionally she does act like a petulant teenager, for instance her crush on Dario

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