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[Book spoiler] Aren't you bothered?


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I have to disagree with some of you saying the replacing scenes of Arya/Bran were better/good. In my opinion they weren't. Wanna know why?

Because the whole point of their deaths were to write a drama and how the death of those characters affected the pov characters. For example Arya: She was mistreated by the person overlooking her, so she got him killed. That could show the tv viewer that Arya has a darker side. They also killed the Tikler off too fast. Now we won't see a scene where Arya bloody murders him over and over by stabbing him over and over again. That scene would be GOLD and maybe win her an emmy, but no, they had to do it D&D's way. Bugger them.

The whole point of Mikken's death and the others were to show the readers the loyalty of the people of Winterfell to the Starks. Now, instead of meaningfull people's death, we get to see half chopped too quickly deaths of characters who should have died differently.

The Rodrik vs Bolton's Bastard war would have geen gold.

The Reeds entrance would be grand; their introduction was best 'we swear it by fire and blood, etc'.

I know we can't have everything, but they bloody blew it in my opinion.

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COK should have been 15 episodes, not 10. Because of that, the opening felt too rushed.

Well, they are moving a lot of stuff to S3, and book3 wont be over until S4. So in a sense it is 15 eps :P

The Reeds entrance would be grand; their introduction was best 'we swear it by fire and blood, etc'.

By ice and fire, actually :)

By earth and water, blood and iron, ice and fire, iirc.

Just because they're the only time the series name appears in the books doesn't mean they have to be in, but I do want them in because I really like the two of them and enjoy them so much.

And I agree their oath of fealty is a 'nostalgia tears' moment when I recall it.

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Well, they are moving a lot of stuff to S3, and book3 wont be over until S4. So in a sense it is 15 eps :P

By ice and fire, actually :)

By earth and water, blood and iron, ice and fire, iirc.

Just because they're the only time the series name appears in the books doesn't mean they have to be in, but I do want them in because I really like the two of them and enjoy them so much.

And I agree their oath of fealty is a 'nostalgia tears' moment when I recall it.

Thx for correcting me, lol.

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The opening sequence, the taking of Winterfell, constituted the best 10 minutes of television I have seen this year! It was absolutely pitch perfect in every way. It adapted the book events beautifully, maximizing the power and emotion of those scenes. Bran/ Theon interaction in Bran's room was sooo goood! I think it's the most subtle touch the show has been able to deliver this season. It spoke volumes with very few lines and some masterful acting and blocking.

The episode did have a couple of scenes where it fell short of excellence, one was even down right cheesy - that plastic looking septon's arm - but as a whole this was the best paced, plotted and choreographed episode this season, for my money. It flowed beautifully, maintaining tension & drama from beginning to end.

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The opening sequence, the taking of Winterfell, constituted the best 10 minutes of television I have seen this year! It was absolutely pitch perfect in every way. It adapted the book events beautifully, maximizing the power and emotion of those scenes. Bran/ Theons interaction is Bran's room was sooo goood! I think it's the most subtle touch the show has been able to deliver this season. It spoke volumes with very few lines and some masterful acting and blocking.

The episode did have a couple of scenes where it fell short of excellence, one was even down right cheesy - that plastic looking septon's arm - but as a whole this was the best paced, plotted and choreographed episode this season, for my money. It flowed beautifully, maintaining tension & drama from beginning to end.

I gotta throw my lot in on this side of the argument.

Bran/Theon I thought was very well done, particularly Bran's reaction to Theon's presence. He was tired and pretty unmoved when he was awoken by Theon because it's Theon, the guy he's known literally his whole life, the guy who saved his life from wildlings no more than a few months ago. He awakes to find Theon in his bedchamber and, in the thicket of confused thoughts crowding his waking mind he grabs the most familiar which is "Oh, it's Theon, I wonder what he wants?" Instantly 'getting' the gravity of the situation would be inhuman.

The Arya/Jaqen scenes were great; they needed to show that Jaqen is almost inhumanly good at killing people, in the book this is done via exposition and detailed description of how the targets came to sticky but, more importantly, obviously accidental ends. In the show it is very difficult to convey that kind of death (I believe one of the targets was killed by his dogs in the book, somehow Jaqen got the dogs to attack him), the Tickler's death looked pretty much like a standard murder to my eyes so they decided to make Jaqen do something 'impossible' that translates well to screen.

And it was a hilarious sequence.

Jon/Ygritte admittedly it's been a while since I read this book but I didn't see any glaring departures, it seems obvious to me that they'll either meet up with Qhorin again or Jon will let Ygritte go and Jon will meet up with Qhorin before the fight with Rattleshirt. If anything these scenes were for the purpose of giving Ygritte a more plausible reason for siding with Jon when the confrontation happens.

Yeah, the High Septon getting literally pulled apart by a mob. I must admit I don't speak from personal experience when I say this but I should think an arm is jolly difficult to pull off a body like that. It's a pretty sturdy collection of bones, muscles and tendons in that area, dislocation, sure, as that's just a case of leverage but actually pulling it OFF the torso? Wat. And these folk are meant to be starving. Even attempting to cut it off with a knife would take longer than happens in show I'm sure (depends on the knife I suppose, but one small enough for me to not see it would probably be pretty wimpy).

What else? Oh, Robb needs a kick in the nadgers to keep him mind on the job (he could have done with this in the book too).

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I too thought Lorch's death was hilarious and the fact that is was seemingly impossible set up just how good th FM are at killing. I fully expect for there to be fallout from Tywin witnessing an assassination on his doorstep, so that will probably add more differences to the story. Yes, it would have been cool to see Amory meet his end with the bear, but who knows if they will even have the Bloody Mummers, I am sure they can have someone else capture Jaime on the road.

I thought the opening was excellent, and the dragon theft is intriguing for now, let's see where they go with it next week.

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I totally disagree - I thought this was a great episode and the beginning with Theon taking Winterfell was almost exactly like it was in the book. The other deviations were necessary because this is a TELEVISION adaptation of the books, and has to adapt to a television audience, many who have never read the books.

Dany's dragons being stolen adds some much needed drama to the Dany story in Qarth. I always thought it was unrealistic in the books that no one ever stole them....really? Her small raggled group with three dragons and no one ever tried to just take them in this bloodthirsty world that is Essos? I am interested in seeing how this plays into her scenes in the HofU.

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Just because they're the only time the series name appears in the books doesn't mean they have to be in, but I do want them in because I really like the two of them and enjoy them so much.

Rhaegar says it too in the House of the Undying:

"His is the Song of Ice and Fire".

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The actor playing Bran did a terrible job when Theon burst in. He looked like he wanted to hit the snooze and go back to sleep.

Eh, I think he redeemed himself with the armour-piercing "did you always hate us?" question, and losing his shit in the courtyard when Theon was egged on to execute Rodrik.

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It seemed all so sudden, and so unnatural. I'm referring to the opening of this weeks episode. The acting seemed forced and not natural.

And not to mention the HUGE diversion from the books. This whole episode seemed 40% different from the books, which - yes - did bother me.

I'm referring to the way Theon captured Winterfell, how Rodrik died, how LF presented himself to Tywin and how impossible Jaqen's killing of that dude who couldn't read seemed. I mean; I know the FM can do some pretty epic shizzle, but not in that way. It seemed too forced.

Or how about that dragon storyline for Daenarys! I know I know, 'it's television and needs to be different' or 'otherwise she wouldn't have a big role', BUT still, it seemed too different. Now Dany will probably go to the house of the undying because her dragons were stolen; no such thing happened in the books.

I give this week's episode a 7/10 at most.

What are your thoughts on the matter?

Of those items, the only one I didn't like was the Lorch chase scene to the Jaqen killing him with a dart. I'm sure FM are trained with weapons like that, I don't have a problem with it. I have a problem with Arya being able to just yell NOW and he jumps at her command. The example, and I know people who don't like comments about the books will pee themselves at this, is that Jaqen made a point to Arya in the books that the killings are done on his own time - it may take a year even. The fact that she can just command him and he acts on it was just forced - as that whole scene felt.

The dragons being stolen I'm ok with except from the standpoint that it now begs the question "why didn't anyone else try to take them before?" Oh, and just how badass is Pyat Pree if he was able to take out all of those people?

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I wasn't bothered by the opening, I thought it was well-done. My first thought listening to Bran react was "Dude, why aren't you taking this seriously?" Second and all subsequent thoughts were along the lines of "Because he's a little kid that just got woken up by someone he's spent his whole life growing up with, why would he immediately believe the guy betrayed the Starks and is now holding him hostage."

I am liking the dragon theft more and more, as I think about it. Dany's whole schtick for the entirety of aCoS was "I have tiny, baby dragons...give me everything I whine for." That's kind of idiotic. Any of the people helping her could have killed her and then been the sole possessor of dragons. Instead, we get someone that had the forethought to actually go for the dragons. It could wake her character up a little faster.

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It didn't seem forced to me, he didn't jump just because she said "NOW", he was pretty clear on that point, she can't tell him when to kill, he reluctantly reacted because he knew she may have been captured or killed which at the very least would have left his debt unpaid.

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I kinda like the small changes that are in the TV show, because they make the story fresh even for people who have read and overanalyzed the novels. That been said, I don't like all the changes, eg the lack of the Reeds or Asha's new name (I will never get over that...)

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Re: the reeds, I think it is quite possible that Bran, Rickon, Hodor and Osha meet up with the Reeds while on the run. Jojen explains he dream for him and then meera takes Rickon and Osha takes Bran and Hodor to the Wall. You will need somebody to

1) Explain (expositionate) what a greenseer, warg and heart trees to Bran

2) Have somebody get Rickon and Shaggydog to wherever Wyman Manderley is convinced he needs a smuggler of Davos' skill to get to

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Well, they are moving a lot of stuff to S3, and book3 wont be over until S4. So in a sense it is 15 eps :P

yeahh but the blackwater is happening in episode 9. there isnt a lot of ACOK left after that.

I kinda like the small changes that are in the TV show, because they make the story fresh even for people who have read and overanalyzed the novels. That been said, I don't like all the changes, eg the lack of the Reeds or Asha's new name (I will never get over that...)

there have definitely been good changes. simplifying the politics of Qarth was much needed for TV. I don't mind the Reeds as Jojens knowledge of old stories can be taken up by Osha.

But often, it seems like they don't know what they're doing. The skip important parts, and then leave in scenes that no longer make sense.(or at least aren't necessary) What was the point of introducing and killing Lommy, other than as a nod to people who have read the books. (this should be minimized) Without the escape and wanderings of Arya and co, Lommy meant nothing more than dozens of recruits who died in the same scene, and certianly much less than Loren. It shouldn't have been emotional for show Arya or viewers.

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I have to disagree with some of you saying the replacing scenes of Arya/Bran were better/good. In my opinion they weren't. Wanna know why?

Because the whole point of their deaths were to write a drama and how the death of those characters affected the pov characters. For example Arya: She was mistreated by the person overlooking her, so she got him killed. That could show the tv viewer that Arya has a darker side. They also killed the Tikler off too fast. Now we won't see a scene where Arya bloody murders him over and over by stabbing him over and over again. That scene would be GOLD and maybe win her an emmy, but no, they had to do it D&D's way. Bugger them.

I agree that they killed off the Tickler at the entirely wrong time. It's not like they were lacking in Lannister men to have Arya kill either. That guy who stole her sword and threatened to beat/kill her would have been a perfect replacement for Weese, whom Arya ordered killed because he hit her. But with the Tickler gone there won't be that future stabbity "Is there gold in the village ?" scene later, while I find it's one of Arya's most important scenes.

The whole point of Mikken's death and the others were to show the readers the loyalty of the people of Winterfell to the Starks. Now, instead of meaningfull people's death, we get to see half chopped too quickly deaths of characters who should have died differently.

The Rodrik vs Bolton's Bastard war would have geen gold.

The Reeds entrance would be grand; their introduction was best 'we swear it by fire and blood, etc'.

I know we can't have everything, but they bloody blew it in my opinion.

I disagree with this however. For me it was hands down the best scene of the entire season so far, even more impactful than in the books. I'm slightly baffled as to how Rodrik came from Torrhen's Square on his own though, but otherwise I thought this scene was perfect. Maester Luwin desperately trying to send his raven first, Bran's intitial lack of reaction at the whole thing, Farlen speaking up against Theon and Theon eventually going along with Rodrik's execution while Bran loses it in the background... Even the music when Theon rage-kills Rodrik was pretty top-notch. They should have nominated Alfie Allen for the Emmys instead of Kit Harrington IMO.

And I still think the Reeds can have a good entrance in Season 3, just not in Winterfell.

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I'm happy to see that so many people have made the adjustment and are now accepting that changes inevitably must be made for a television adaptation of Martin's books. There are some core plot events and characterizations that probably must be included in any adaptation (that might be an interesting thread in itself), but the writers must be given plenty of latitude and freedom. The question is not "Are the writers being faithful to the books in every detail?" but "Are they giving us a entertaining, compelling drama that is faithful, in spirit, to the books?" If they accomplish the latter, then they have accomplished something wonderful.

I am thoroughly enjoying "Game of Thrones." It's some of the best television I have seen in years, and I feel sorry for those who are unable to appreciate it on its own terms because their imaginations are too tied to the books. We need to be honest. Martin's books cannot be successfully translated to the screen as they stand. They are too long, too convoluted, too dense. Martin has created so many plot threads we are all wondering if he'll be able to to convincingly pull it all altogether. Some of the stuff in these books is just bad. The first book in the series was relatively easy to render into a mini-seires, but the difficulties for successful translation increase exponentially for each successive title. It's all quite the narrative nightmare. And that is why I think the writers are doing a splendid job. Not a perfect job but a splendid job, nonetheless. They are working with very difficult source material. I have my own criticisms of the series, but my criticisms have to do with the television presentation on its own terms, not with the "changes" the writers have made to the books.

"Game of Thrones" is an adaptation of "Song of Ice and Fire." It is not a visual transcription of the books. It's an adaptation. If you want to enjoy the show, you have to temporarily forget the books. Let the writers and directors surprise you. This is outstanding television. This kind of television doesn't happen very often.

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I have no problem with the changes made. I liked this episode from beginning to end. The scene with lorch was ok since it showed how quick and skilled jaq'en is as a FM. Daenerysneeds to be busy and I like the intrigue. Theon invading Winterfell was actually good for me.

i am now ok with the fact that the show will not follow the book totally but as long as the end result is the same, the acting good I am fine.

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