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Moments of Foreshadowing


Patchface12

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[i'm doing a 1+1]

Perhaps the games foreshadow dany's death\lost?

I think in all 3 times the Dragon represents Dany -

Game 1 : "

Dragon defeats elephants = Dany defeats the Voltanese fleet on her way to attack her in Meereen right now."

- Ser Wun Wun

Game 2 : "

Meereen will fall to the Yunkai because Dany's too far away. "

-Winter's Knight

Game 3 : Dany loses...? The battle over Westeros? Maybe... I don't know.

Any thoughts?

I actually like this set of predictions. I think it has more predictive power if the main player is the same in each scenario. I definitely agree that the elephants represent Volantis in some way.

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Is there a chance that they are telling Jon he doesn't belong there, not because he isn't a Stark, but because he isn't dead? This may foreshadow his survival of the Ides of Marsh.

I think it's both. They specifically said that he wasn't a Stark after they appeared ready to attack him.

He dreamt he was back in Winterfell, limping past the stone kings on their thrones. Their grey granite

eyes turned to follow him as he passed, and their grey granite fingers tightened on the hilts of the rusted

swords upon their laps. You are no Stark, he could hear them mutter, in heavy granite voices. There is no

place for you here. Go away.He walked deeper into the darkness...They are feasting in the Great Hall, but I am not

welcome there. I am no Stark, and this is not my place. "

He walked deeper into the darkness. "Father?" he called. "Bran? Rickon?"

No one answered. A chill wind was blowing on his neck. "Uncle?" he called. "Uncle Benjen? Father?

Please, Father, help me." Up above he heard drums. They are feasting in the Great Hall, but I am not

welcome there. I am no Stark, and this is not my place. His crutch slipped and he fell to his knees. The

crypts were growing darker. A light has gone out somewhere. "Ygritte?" he whispered. "Forgive me.

Please." But it was only a direwolf, grey and ghastly, spotted with blood, his golden eyes shining sadly

through the dark...“... Where are you? Was he dead as well, was

that what his dream had meant, the bloody wolf in the crypts? But the wolf in the dream had been grey,

not white. Grey, like Bran's wolf. Had the Therms hunted him down and killed him after Queenscrown?

If so, Bran was lost to him for good and all."

^I think this part was showing that Greywind was dead but he mistook it for Summer because he didn't know that Robb was dead yet.

“Last night he had dreamt the Winterfell dream again. He was wandering the empty castle, searching for

his father, descending into the crypts. Only this time the dream had gone further than before. In the dark

he'd heard the scrape of stone on stone. When he turned he saw that the vaults were opening, one after

the other. As the dead kings came stumbling from their cold black graves, Jon had woken in pitchdark,

his heart hammering.

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But again, "I am no Stark". He is half a Stark, and half a Targ, unless GRRM blows me away with a bazooka. I don't realistically see any other foreshadowing of any other parentage that makes sense. It doesn't read like he shouldn't be in the crypts because he's not dead. If anything, it could read he doesn't belong in the crypts because his father is a Targaryen, not a Stark, and Starks of Winterfell are buried there, not Starks of the Night's Watch or half Starks that could be King. And he's not welcome at the feast, either. Why?

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But again, "I am no Stark". He is half a Stark, and half a Targ, unless GRRM blows me away with a bazooka. I don't realistically see any other foreshadowing of any other parentage that makes sense. It doesn't read like he shouldn't be in the crypts because he's not dead. If anything, it could read he doesn't belong in the crypts because his father is a Targaryen, not a Stark, and Starks of Winterfell are buried there, not Starks of the Night's Watch or half Starks that could be King. And he's not welcome at the feast, either. Why?

If Rhaegar is his father saying he's no Stark makes sense because you take your father's name, sigil, etc. So, technically, he wouldn't be a Stark.

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I think they both said that he wasn't a Stark. First the Kings of Winter said it and then Jon just repeated it after them.

Theon and Jaimie also visited the dead. The dead seemed more accepting of Jaimie in his dream. The only ones who weren't were the other KG members and Ned.

Theon was also at a feast:

That night he dreamed of the feast Ned Stark had thrown when King Robert came to Winterfell. The halls rang with music and laughter, though the cold winds were rising outside. At first it was all wine and roast meat, and Theon was making japes and eyeing the serving girls and having himself a fine time...until he noticed the room was growing darker. The music did not seem so jolly then; he heard discords and strange silences, and notes that hung in the air bleeding. Suddenly the wine turned bitter in his mouth, and when he looked up from his cup he saw he was dining with the dead.

Along the walls figures half seen moved through the shadows, pale shadows with long grim faces. The sight of them sent fear shivering through Theon sharp as a knife.

Both Jon and Theon expressed fear in their dreams.

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The dragon sign from the inn washing out black and coming back rusted red. Foreshadowing a Blackfyre pretending to be a Targaryen.

Devils Advocate: Also possibly foreshadowing the Golden Company coming back with a Targaryean instead of a Blackfyre.

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Jon in AGoT looking up at the Wall during his first week:

He could feel the great weight of all that ice pressing down on him, as if it were about to topple, and somehow Jon knew that if it fell, the world fell with it.

Sansa at the tourney at AGoT after she sees Jon Arryn's squire killed by the Mountain:

She had never seen a man die before. She ought to be crying too, she thought, but the tears would not come [...] It would be different if it had been Jory or Ser Rodrik or Father, she told herself.

Funnily enough, all three do die between the first and second books.

Joer Mormont says this to Jon Snow in AGoT:

The things we love destroy us every time, lad. Remember that.

Jon, though deciding to get involved with the realm's politics for other sound reasons, is also motivated by "Arya's" plight with Ramsay. He ends up getting stabbed. Whoops.

Lord Bloodraven made an appearance in AGoT and I never caught it. When Jon encounters the wight in the Old Bear's quarters, the crow, with no prompt whatsoever, caws "Burn!...Burn, Burn, Burn!" There was no one to mimic cawing at that time.

This one weirds me out because I hope it's not true for Arya. But then again, it could foreshadow Sansa's (I hope so!) fate with Arya's last statement:

"You," Ned said, kissing her lightly on the brow, "will marry a king and rule his castle, and your sons will be knights and princes and, yes, perhaps even a High Septon." Arya screwed up her face. "No," she said, "that's Sansa."
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It's symbolism, there are multiple ways to look at it. Theon commended Hodor on remembering his name was a funny little moment of foreshadowing even though it's not Hodor that ever forgets his name.

I'm not sure that's quite in the same realm as a tangible piece of thematic evidence — the sign — changing colors the way it did, washing out and coming back in. If you think it refers to the Golden Company itself, that's your call. But it's clear to me that it's the dragon — Aegon — itself that's the changeling.

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I think it'll be clear only in hindsight what it means.

Dany's vision in the House of the Undying to me was showing that Robb Stark would be the victor in the end but the celebration would be marred by all the carnage. When Ned died I knew the eventual victory by Robb would end up meaningless and hollow without being able to rescue his father. Of course in the end it means they'll chop off his head and sew on a wolf head instead.... oops.

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Please." But it was only a direwolf, grey and ghastly, spotted with blood, his golden eyes shining sadly

through the dark...“... Where are you? Was he dead as well, was

that what his dream had meant, the bloody wolf in the crypts? But the wolf in the dream had been grey,

not white. Grey, like Bran's wolf. Had the Therms hunted him down and killed him after Queenscrown?

If so, Bran was lost to him for good and all."

So what do you think the phrase "Bran was lost to him for good and all" means? Does it mean he thinks Bran is alive but will die without his direwolf? Does it mean that Bran is dead and the only thing left was the direwolf? Does it mean that he is somehow aware of the connections among the wolves and that they communicate with each other? Or is it a hint that a Stark without a wolf will be lost forever?

But again, "I am no Stark". He is half a Stark, and half a Targ, unless GRRM blows me away with a bazooka. I don't realistically see any other foreshadowing of any other parentage that makes sense. It doesn't read like he shouldn't be in the crypts because he's not dead. If anything, it could read he doesn't belong in the crypts because his father is a Targaryen, not a Stark, and Starks of Winterfell are buried there, not Starks of the Night's Watch or half Starks that could be King. And he's not welcome at the feast, either. Why?

Another thing. Targs are burned, not buried.

One of my faves, 'cause you know these casual statements turn out to be oddly prophetic.

“Is that why you killed all the Starks?”

“Not all,” said Jaime. “Lord Eddard’s daughters live. One has just been wed. The other…” Brienne, where are you? Have you found her? “…if the gods are good, she’ll forget she was a Stark. She’ll wed some burly blacksmith or fat-faced inkeep, fill his house with children, and never need to fear that some knight might come along to smash their heads against a wall.”

I don't think this literally means that Sansa will marry Gendry, or any other blacksmith or innkeeper, just that she will marry someone who's not in the game and she won't be, either. If Robb's will ever shows up Sansa won't have her claim to Winterfell, so she won't be such prize.

Speaking of which – I took all those "They only want you/me for your/my claim" statements to mean that either Sansa loses the claim, but someone loves her for herself alone and marries her, or that she keeps her claim, but someone loves her for herself alone . . .

I've always thought that all those references to "The Rains of Castamere" foreshadows disaster for the Lannisters, or at least Tywin's line (Jaime, Cersei, Tyrion, Myrcella, Tommen). What goes around comes around.

I think Jaime's weirwood dream sets out the order of Lannister deaths, that Cersei dies before Jaime, because she's standing among the dead when Jaime sees her, then Jaime, because his sword goes out, and then Tyrion at some time in the future, perhaps even ever-after, because he's not in the dream at all.

"You," Ned said, kissing her lightly on the brow, "will marry a king and rule his castle, and your sons will be knights and princes and, yes, perhaps even a High Septon." Arya screwed up her face. "No," she said, "that's Sansa."

I thought this was predicting a different path for Ayra, and the gods know she's on one now.

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But is it really only in hindsight if people have already figured it out correctly? It will be proved correct only in hindsight, yes, but hindsight isn't necessary to arrive at the basic conclusion. :P

It'll only be clear in hindsight. That's the key bit. I like playing devils advocate to argue both sides of the issue really but there is lot of good stuff on both sides of the issue I think. Taking what is directly said and trying to filter out some of the stuff which is meant directly and some of it which is more clouded by parables and symbols. If everything was meant directly and nothing symbols or everything symbols and nothing directly the prophecies and visions and small little foreshadowing moments wouldn't be as interesting as they are now where there is a good mix to keep the reader guessing. So while the sign being red/black has meaning it could easily go other ways than just that he's pretending to be a red dragon.

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