7V3N Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 And what dragonsight would that be?? Quaithe constantly tries to make her remember who she is and to show her the way. Dany equates that as -I am the blood of the dragon blah,blah- But,why on earth would a shadowbinder from dragon-stirring Asshai take any heed as to what fate will befall Westeros? Daenerys has bigger than that role and fails to see it.If anyone,it will be Quaithe who loses the mind :DIn the Dunk & Egg novellas, it is said that Targaryens have "dragon dreams" which are just like Jojen's prophetic green dreams, but they always involve dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushido Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 She is,look up the moment when Cressen describes her for the first time.Besides,we have seen her bind the shadow ;)Funny thought,an annual showbinders convention,Quaithe hitting the bottle and complaining how Mel got everything,even a sane protege :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushido Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 In the Dunk & Egg novellas, it is said that Targaryens have "dragon dreams" which are just like Jojen's prophetic green dreams, but they always involve dragons.I read only the first,so I know about Daeron. Anyone else? Daeron,Aenar's daughter...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lummel Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 There another one in "The Mystery Knight" who has dragon dreams and Aemon in AFFC refers to dragon dreams as a well known condition of the Targaryen family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushido Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I remember well AFfC,Aemon didn't put it in that words...Nevertheless,Dany's only dream is pre-quaithe,when she sees how to wake a dragon,which could be part of the same fire and blood magic,but not really a prophetic dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7V3N Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I remember well AFfC,Aemon didn't put it in that words...Nevertheless,Dany's only dream is pre-quaithe,when she sees how to wake a dragon,which could be part of the same fire and blood magic,but not really a prophetic dream.My point was more that the prophet (Quaithe in this case) might be ambiguous because that is how they received the message. Prophecies come in different forms from different sources.As you have seen, Melisandre's specificity can get her in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eejit Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Who says Quaithe is a prophet at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toccs Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Who says Quaithe is a prophet at all? . . . . The myriad of successful prophecies that she has made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushido Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 . . . . The myriad of successful prophecies that she has made. Prophecies? Not a single one. She shows her the way,and sees who is coming to her via glass candle. She may be acting under some prophecy she had read,but so far,nothing she said is a prophecy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanmore Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I'm assuming Quaithe really is contacting her via some mystical means, because there's no real reason to think otherwise.But even if Quaithe's later appearances are just figments of Dany's imagination, I don't see how that makes her crazy. We know there is truth to her prophesies, so there's obviously a mystic element to it all.Do Jojen's green dreams make him crazy? Do the things Mel sees in her fires make her insane? What of the Starks and their wolf dreams? Every other vision and prophecy in the series is taken at face value, so I don't see why Dany's should be held up as evidence of some Targaryen mental illness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 In the series, plenty of characters have visions and prophetic dreams - although Danerys has more than most.I think that she's definitely hallucinating during her final chapter in ADWD, although that may be due to physical, rather than mental, illness. Missandei also speaks about her screaming out at night.I think it's unclear at this stage whether Dany shares the family madness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushido Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Missandei also speaks about her screaming out at night.Dany was having sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7V3N Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Dany is already a bit mad. Every person she meets, she suspects of being the next betrayal (or first, if you think Jorah was not one of them like me). She also had flashes of extreme anger where we know she is very dangerous and cruel. I think with added paranoia, she will become much more like Aerys. I already see a lot of madness hidden in her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Nikolas Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Aren't we all a little bit mad? All that matters is our level of control. Dany happens to at a disadvantage as there is a family history of insanity, and seems more in control of herself than- say -her brother. I think Quaithe is purposely trying to drive Dany insane so she'll become a R'hlor fanatic and listen without question to what Quaithe says is her destiny- and her ambiguous prophecies which are instilling massive paranoia and a highly inflated sense of entitlement seem to pushing her that way. What really frightens me is that we don't know the limit of Quaithe's power. Mel, we've seen her best trick- The Black Flame, he's powerful, but he must have a limit somewhere comparable to Mel, admittedly with more focus and strength to that limit. Quaithe? We really don't know. The only other person known to use a glass candle is Archmaester Marwyn, and he taught MMD everything she knew. The evidence suggests that Quaithe is more powerful than any magic-user we've seen, and the fact we don't know her limit frightens me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall Tyrion Lannister! Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I don;t think so. I might be getting the show mixed up with the book but doesn't she talk to Jorah a little too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushido Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Dany is already a bit mad. Every person she meets, she suspects of being the next betrayal (or first, if you think Jorah was not one of them like me). She also had flashes of extreme anger where we know she is very dangerous and cruel. I think with added paranoia, she will become much more like Aerys. I already see a lot of madness hidden in her.You are exaggerating... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevumar Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 But even if Quaithe's later appearances are just figments of Dany's imagination, I don't see how that makes her crazy. We know there is truth to her prophesies, so there's obviously a mystic element to it all.I don't think Quaithe has given any prophecies, just cryptic and not particularly useful bits of advice. She has occasionally told Dany to do certain things or presented her with vague information, but none of this really qualifies as prophecy.Do Jojen's green dreams make him crazy? Do the things Mel sees in her fires make her insane? What of the Starks and their wolf dreams? Every other vision and prophecy in the series is taken at face value, so I don't see why Dany's should be held up as evidence of some Targaryen mental illness.I'd say Melisandre's fire reading is troubling, but not indicative of mental illness.It's not the existence of Dany's dreams that are evidence of mental illness, but the level of obsession and paranoia are worrying. She spends a lot of time agonizing over whether people's actions constitute betrayal, and there are some meaningful parallels between her and Cersei there. She does not go as far down that road as Cersei does, but Dany's actions in Meereen are driven by a volatile combination of temper, paranoia, and inexperience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7V3N Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 You are exaggerating...Maybe. Maybe not. When somebody pisses her off (sometimes by just damaging her pride) she can be ruthless and sometimes I am scared for her because she does have different sides: a sweet, innocent girl and a protective, short-tempered dragon-queen.CPT: Perhaps Dany's schizophrenia is kicking in (usually starts up in late teens, early adulthood) and Quaithe is entirely non-existent. Vis could have had it (good age for development in males), Aerys could have had it. The incest with the Targaryens could easily be the thing to bring it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.