Is there really any chance of there being a "Euron the Conquerer"

[Lothar Imbel]

All in all I'd say Euron has as much chance to sit on the Iron Throne as Hodor. This is why following the Iron Islands plotline is so tedious, George R. R. Martin hasn't proved why any of this is supposed to be important or how these vikings can possibly still be a real threat.

They basically decided the War of the Five Kings and ended any possibility of a Stark victory for one...

Danaerys Targaryen is worse than Euron, surely. People overplay his dark aspects way too much.

No they don't. Euron is one of the darkest characters in the seires, who combines the cruelty of Gregor Clegane with the political scheming of Littlefinger, who's up to his arse in dark arcane magic. Not that he's not an awesome character because of this.

[The Smiling Eye]

Oh, I know he's very dark. I just think people paint him as a villain or even 'the' villain later down the road too much, I think that's wrong. Plenty of people's favorite character's in the series have done despicable acts.

[Lothar Imbel]

GRRM's dickheads are much better creations than his honourable characters, that's for sure.

[Hamilton]

Honestly he better get the Iron Throne. Atleast do something of major consequence. I loved the IronBorn chapters in AFFC but it would be pointless if they act as a plot device for Dany to get to Westeros.

[Somnus]

Oh, I know he's very dark. I just think people paint him as a villain or even 'the' villain later down the road too much, I think that's wrong. Plenty of people's favorite character's in the series have done despicable acts.

True, but the Greyjoy storyline must end up in something big or at least significant to Westeros, just like the Martells probably will play a important role in the next books.

Besides, Euron and Theon were the only Greyjoys that thought and planned beyond the:

1.Pillage and rape without a clear goal other than not sowing.

2.???

3.Profit

The ironborn are a BIG bunch of morons but with a leader that actually thinks, is ruthless, has a dragon horn, knowledge of black magic, etc.. they become a well organized threat, so I think it's only natural Euron ends up being one of the main players towards the end.

[CrypticWeirwood]

I can’t believe how folks keep letting Euron get away with taking the piss out of them. ;}

[jarl the climber]

This is the policy Euron had advocated so far.

1. Abandon the conquests that Balon made in the North. Probaly a smart move but he hasn't made peace with them either or exacted any kind of price from the North for doing this. A number of dissedents are in the North with Stannis.

2. A marriage alliance between him and Danerys Targaryean. He has sent the Iron Fleet to her in Mereen led by his brother Victorian who means to betray him and marry Dany himself. Euron might have come along in disguise.

3. Start a war with the Reach, counquer the Sheild Islands and threaten the Arbor and Oldtown. He has to realize that this will bring the Redwyne fleet from KL back to the Sunset Sea. Originally he wanted to send every ship the Ironborn had to Dany, which really did not make sense and was shot down by his own men. I don't think he ever intended to send all his ships and knew that the captians would refuse. This sets up a battle with the Redwyne Fleet in which his forces should have the advantage because the know the fleet must be used to retake the Sheilds to deny them a base to reave from.

This also has had the added benefit of puttting a wedge between Cersei and the Tyrells. It had an effect with whatever happened or did not happen on Dragonstone. Drew eyes away from the East and drew them West. With the Redwyne fleet in the West they can't oppose Dany landing somewhere in the East or Aegons landing.

4. Used the animosity of his brother Aeron to actually legitimise his claim. If Aeron had simply backed his choice of Victorian and convinced him to reach a comprimise with Asha he could have sucsessfully opposed him. The Kingsmoot tied Victorian to him, discredited Ashas claim and has allowed him to move against the Drowned Men and their influence.

Going forward I see him setting a trap for the Redwyne fleet, and he is going to do something in the Westerlands, either militarily or diplomaticly perhaps by fermenting rebellion against Cersei and the lannisters among the Western bannermen or a junior branch of the Lannisters. Fair Isle or maybe the Crag if Jeyne is there with Robbs heir.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

All in all I'd say Euron has as much chance to sit on the Iron Throne as Hodor. This is why following the Iron Islands plotline is so tedious, George R. R. Martin hasn't proved why any of this is supposed to be important or how these vikings can possibly still be a real threat.

Uh...The Vikings, conquered england, normandy, founded the kingdoms of two sicilies and russia....

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

This is the policy Euron had advocated so far.

1. Abandon the conquests that Balon made in the North. Probaly a smart move but he hasn't made peace with them either or exacted any kind of price from the North for doing this. A number of dissedents are in the North with Stannis.

2. A marriage

No. He just wants dragons. He says he wants to marry Dany so Victarion will go get her out of his desire for revenge. Victarion is so fucking stupid.

alliance between him and Danerys Targaryean. He has sent the Iron Fleet to her in Mereen led by his brother Victorian who means to betray him and marry Dany himself. Euron might have come along in disguise.

3. Start a war with the Reach, counquer the Sheild Islands and threaten the Arbor and Oldtown. He has to realize that this will bring the Redwyne fleet from KL back to the Sunset Sea. Originally he wanted to send every ship the Ironborn had to Dany, which really did not make sense and was shot down by his own men. I don't think he ever intended to send all his ships and knew that the captians would refuse. This sets up a battle with the Redwyne Fleet in which his forces should have the advantage because the know the fleet must be used to retake the Sheilds to deny them a base to reave from.

This also has had the added benefit of puttting a wedge between Cersei and the Tyrells. It had an effect with whatever happened or did not happen on Dragonstone. Drew eyes away from the East and drew them West. With the Redwyne fleet in the West they can't oppose Dany landing somewhere in the East or Aegons landing.

4. Used the animosity of his brother Aeron to actually legitimise his claim. If Aeron had simply backed his choice of Victorian and convinced him to reach a comprimise with Asha he could have sucsessfully opposed him. The Kingsmoot tied Victorian to him, discredited Ashas claim and has allowed him to move against the Drowned Men and their influence.

Going forward I see him setting a trap for the Redwyne fleet, and he is going to do something in the Westerlands, either militarily or diplomaticly perhaps by fermenting rebellion against Cersei and the lannisters among the Western bannermen or a junior branch of the Lannisters. Fair Isle or maybe the Crag if Jeyne is there with Robbs heir.

[Jaehaerys Sand]

No. He just wants dragons. He says he wants to marry Dany so Victarion will go get her out of his desire for revenge. Victarion is so fucking stupid.

I'd think he would want to marry Dany and let her rule the Kingdoms while he drinks and whores his way through life, a la Robert.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

I'd think he would want to marry Dany and let her rule the Kingdoms while he drinks and whores his way through life, a la Robert.

why does he need Dany for that? Nor there is any evidence he's particularly fond of drinking or whoring.

[Parwan]

jarl the climber, on 12 May 2012 - 10:43 AM, said:

This is the policy Euron had advocated so far.

...

2. A marriage

No. He just wants dragons. He says he wants to marry Dany so Victarion will go get her out of his desire for revenge. Victarion is so fucking stupid.

So, Euron lies to his brother. Apparently, he is also a kinslayer. There are other places where he either lies or seriously shades the truth. When he claims to have found the magic horn in the ruins of Valyria, I should believe him--why? There is an interesting exchange during the victory celebration in Lord Hewett's castle:

A smile played across Euron's blue lips..."Have you forgotten? I have sailed the Smoking Sea and seen Valyria?"

...

"Have you?" the Reader asked, so softly.

Euron's blue smile vanished. "Reader," he said into the quiet, "you would do well to keep your nose in your books."

Victarion could feel the unease in the hall. He pushed himself to his feet. "Brother," he boomed. "You have not answered Harlaw's questions."

Euron then starts talking about selling slaves and buying provisions. He doesn't answer most of the Reader's questions, certainly not the direct challenge quite clearly set out above. The Crow's Eye can make threats and cause unease. So what? I don't see any reason to believe the claims he makes about his great accomplishments in the east. He obtained a lot of gold. Many pirates do that.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

“Perhaps you should be the fool instead of me.

Trust no one, my prince

. Not your chainless maester, not your false father, not the gallant Duck nor the lovely Lemore nor these other fine friends who grew you from a bean.Above all, trust not the cheesemonger, nor the Spider, nor this little dragon queen you mean to marry. All that mistrust will sour your stomach and keep you awake by night, ’tis true, but better that than the long sleep that does not end.”

So, Euron lies to his brother. Apparently, he is also a kinslayer. There are other places where he either lies or seriously shades the truth. When he claims to have found the magic horn in the ruins of Valyria, I should believe him--why?

You shouldn't. You shouldn't believe anything anyone says just because they say it.

Euron’s hellhorn. Victarion ran his hand along it. The horn was as warm and smooth as the dusky woman’s thighs, and so shiny that he could see a twisted likeness of his own features in its depths. Strange sorcerous writings had been cut into the bands that girded it. “Valyrian glyphs,” Moqorro called them. That much Victarion had known. “What do they say?” “Much and more.” The black priest pointed to one golden band.

“Here the horn is named. ‘I am Dragonbinder,’ it says.

Have you ever heard it sound?” “Once.” One of his brother’s mongrels had sounded the hellhorn at the kingsmoot on Old Wyk. A monster of a man he had been, huge and shaven-headed, with rings of gold and jet and jade around arms thick with muscle, and a great hawk tattooed across his chest.

“The sound it made … it burned, somehow. As if my bones were on fire, searing my flesh from within. Those writings glowed red-hot, then white-hot and painful to look upon. It seemed as if the sound would never end. It was like some long scream. A thousand screams, all melted into one.” “And the man who blew the horn, what of him?” “He died. There were blisters on his lips, after. His bird was bleeding too.” The captain thumped his chest. “The hawk, just here. Every feather dripping blood.

I heard the man was all burned up inside, but that might just have been some tale.”

“A true tale.”

Moqorro turned the hellhorn, examining the queer letters that crawled across a second of the golden bands.“Here it says,

‘No mortal man shall sound me and live.’ ”

There is an interesting exchange during the victory celebration in Lord Hewett's castle:

A smile played across Euron's blue lips..."Have you forgotten? I have sailed the Smoking Sea and seen Valyria?"

oh I don't know if he got the the thing in Valyria. I doubt it.

...

"Have you?" the Reader asked, so softly.

Euron's blue smile vanished. "Reader," he said into the quiet, "you would do well to keep your nose in your books."

Victarion could feel the unease in the hall. He pushed himself to his feet. "Brother," he boomed. "You have not answered Harlaw's questions."

Euron then starts talking about selling slaves and buying provisions. He doesn't answer most of the Reader's questions, certainly not the direct challenge quite clearly set out above. The Crow's Eye can make threats and cause unease. So what? I don't see any reason to believe the claims he makes about his great accomplishments

He did kill Balon we have that from another source. He did win the kingsmoot we have that from another source. He did plan the destruction of the Lannister fleet, we have that from another source. He did sack the shield islands. His horn did kill the man who blew it, consumed by fire from the inside out. So I believe Euron believes it will work.

in the east. He obtained a lot of gold. Many pirates do that.

He's not a pirate.

[QuaitheTheShadow]

He's not a pirate.

Doesn't using a ship to reave the known world make one a pirate?

Doesn't forcing people to eat other people make one a villain?

[Faceless Sam]

I dont think Westeros deserves Euron "i took sociopathy and lifted it to a whole new level" Grejoy AND Danaeris "help, whatever i do i make the situation worse and more people get killed" Targaryen attacking it with a loose dragon, a fleet of crazy vikings and a horde of lunatic huns but it's definitely a possibility.

[Lord Littlefinger's Lash]

Doesn't using a ship to reave the known world make one a pirate?

No. Pirates do not have allegiance to any government. If an independent ship contracts with a government to reave the known world then they're Privateers. If a ship is directly under the control of a government and used to reave the known world then it is part of a navy.

Doesn't forcing people to eat other people make one a villain?

no. is Wynman Manderly a Villain? Is Cold Hands? Is Tyrion? Besides, they'd already tried to eat Dany.

[Parwan]

...

You shouldn't. You shouldn't believe anything anyone says just because they say it.

Euron’s hellhorn. Victarion ran his hand along it. The horn was as warm and smooth as the dusky woman’s thighs, and so shiny that he could see a twisted likeness of his own features in its depths. Strange sorcerous writings had been cut into the bands that girded it. “Valyrian glyphs,” Moqorro called them. That much Victarion had known. “What do they say?” “Much and more.” The black priest pointed to one golden band.

“Here the horn is named. ‘I am Dragonbinder,’ it says.

Have you ever heard it sound?” “Once.” One of his brother’s mongrels had sounded the hellhorn at the kingsmoot on Old Wyk. A monster of a man he had been, huge and shaven-headed, with rings of gold and jet and jade around arms thick with muscle, and a great hawk tattooed across his chest.

“The sound it made … it burned, somehow. As if my bones were on fire, searing my flesh from within. Those writings glowed red-hot, then white-hot and painful to look upon. It seemed as if the sound would never end. It was like some long scream. A thousand screams, all melted into one.” “And the man who blew the horn, what of him?” “He died. There were blisters on his lips, after. His bird was bleeding too.” The captain thumped his chest. “The hawk, just here. Every feather dripping blood.

I heard the man was all burned up inside, but that might just have been some tale.”

“A true tale.”

Moqorro turned the hellhorn, examining the queer letters that crawled across a second of the golden bands.“Here it says,

‘No mortal man shall sound me and live.’ ”

oh I don't know if he got the the thing in Valyria.

So, Euron is a liar, and some people say, "believe no one." This does not mean that all men are equally deceitful. It does appear to mean we have a good reason to suspect that Euron may never have actually had a dragon egg. It also means we can doubt exactly what he wants. He says he wants dragons. He says he wants Dany. I see no reason to believe that one thing is a lie and the other the truth. They may both be the truth. They may both be lies. They may both be partially true...

... He did kill Balon we have that from another source. He did win the kingsmoot we have that from another source. He did plan the destruction of the Lannister fleet, we have that from another source. He did sack the shield islands. His horn did kill the man who blew it, consumed by fire from the inside out. So I believe Euron believes it will work. He's not a pirate.

First of all, my main point was that I saw no reason to believe Euron Greyjoy's claims about his accomplishments in the east. The things you mention did not happen in the east. The kingsmoot? I'll have more to say about that later. For now, let's just say I'm not too impressed by squid brains.

And if we are to trust no one, why should "another source" also not be a lie? The victory over the Lannister fleet was a surprise attack. So was the victory at the Shields. There is no proof that the Crow's Eye, or the other current ironborn, can win a pitched battle against a well-prepared foe. I doubt that anyone is going to win the iron throne on the basis of surprise attacks. Believing something will work is not the same thing as proving that it will work. So far, we know the horn can kill a man. That says nothing about dragons. According to you, Euron has sent a fool out to get dragons. If a man sends a fool to do an important job, that man can't be too damn smart.

Are you saying that the "black priest" is telling Victarion the truth and only the truth about what the inscriptions on the horn say? What would your basis for making that claim be? When the battle is joined, how much can Victarion count on this "black priest"?

Sacking the Shield Islands is no big accomplishment; taking them was good, but not that impressive (See above comments). Kinslaying isn't a big accomplishment either.

Pirates are sea-going thieves. Euron qualifies.

[QuaitheTheShadow]

No. Pirates do not have allegiance to any government.

Did Euron have allegiance to Baleon? I mean, he most likely had him murdered. While reaving he was acting as an independent agent. Baelon didn't order him to reave - he ordered him to leave.

is Wynman Manderly a Villain? Is Cold Hands? Is Tyrion? Besides, they'd already tried to eat Dany.

Manderly is an interesting consideration. I'd say he did it out of vengeance but it was still pretty villainous. He also didn't starve Bolton's men first and then let them know they're eating a comrade which would have made it a bit worse.

I'm not aware of Tyrion or Cold Hands forcing anyone to become a cannibal. . .

Forced cannibalization is just one of Euron's many indulgences besides rape, murder, ripping the tongues of his crewmen out, and seducing his brother's wife. He's an interesting villain to be sure, but saying he isn't a villain is somewhat baffling.

[The Smiling Eye]

A villain is an "evil" character by definition. A black character in a story that is black and white. GRRM's world has no black characters, perhaps the Others but even that can be contested. Everyone is in the grey area, but they are different shades of grey.

Euron can only be antagonizing to -someone-, but not a villain.

[QuaitheTheShadow]

A villain is an "evil" character by definition. A black character in a story that is black and white. GRRM's world has no black characters, perhaps the Others but even that can be contested. Everyone is in the grey area, but they are different shades of grey.

Euron can only be antagonizing to -someone-, but not a villain.

Why does a villain need to be 100% evil? If he's mostly evil and working against the protagonist(s), he's a villain. A villain can have redeeming qualities or even a noble (but often flawed) goal and still be a villain. A villain can do good acts yet still be a villain overall.