Boarders Writing a Novel, Draft 7

[Arthmail]

Good writing trumps all, but editors are leery of anything over 130-140k in fantasy. Winter's Discord is about 130k, Spring's Tempest 135k....I could've stretched to 160-170k, but listened to the advice I was getting. My book Sisters of Khoda was a tidy 95k, though I wading into a new rewrite that might change that number.

And any of you hooligans bring up Rothfuss, I'll start swinging. There are always exception.

Yea, but if they don't like the story i've written i am no longer restricted by the limitations of the publishing industry. I'm not here to write a 95k book, though kudos to those that are. Its not for me. If it gets published then all is well, and if i go the indie route then i'm giving people more bang for their buck. If my non-fantasy reading mother in law can finish the book in a week then i know i'm doing okay.

To be honest, this is only the second of four books. Considering i am pushing out one a year, i'm very happy with that speed - and this is slow. I wrote the first hundred pages of a connected series in 2 weeks. But i find i'm taking more care with the sequal, and i've changed the format somewhat to reflect that.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

Ah, thank god, I started writing again today. Belted out three thousand words. I was going to focus on short stories, but I just got in the mood to start writing about my experiences in the military--and mainly in Guantanamo. I decided to make it pseudo non-fiction, but add a healthy dose of fiction, and I decided I'm going to focus on the more humorous aspects of military life. I'd often wanted to write of the atrocity I witnessed there, and I don't think I'll leave that out, but once I decided to make the tone more humorous the words just started pouring out.

So here's to my new novel: TWAT (The War Against Terror). An epic story of soldiers being sent away from their homes and families to face the most terrible foe of all--Cabin Fever.

I'm also excited because, though I haven't plotted a damned thing out (I try not to ever do that), I feel like this book is going to come in around 70-80,000 words. My other novel finished at 180,000, and I spent years trimming it down to 119,000. I'm excited for a smaller project.

[emberling]

Getting ready to dive back in for the August NaNo. For the first time ever, I'm writing to an outline. It was kind of rough figuring out how to make one - that is, how to find the story, how to find what happens next without going through the actual process of writing character - and then wrangling it into some semblance of motivational consistency, but it's complete just in time. I know some people just can't write with an outline and I thought I would be one of those people, but I'm feeling pretty good about this.

Without one, I kept getting lost, driving into a wide-open gulf where there were too many possibilities and nothing seemed right, or into a tangled knot where nothing works. And I know a lot of people say they can't write with an outline because when they write, they get the drive to push forward because they want to know what happens next - but I found myself charging through scenes as fast as possible, no tension or buildup, beyond-minimal description, because I wanted to know what happened next way more than I cared about giving the current scenes the attention they deserved.

Now I know what happens next, and the big exciting mystery is the little things: what kind of spice will I find to bring the side characters and the settings to life? What would a fight between these guys look like?

I just hope I can actually get the words out.

Oh, I'm also expecting to celebrate my first short story rejection soon! Lots of anticipation here.

[Starkess]

Getting ready to dive back in for the August NaNo. For the first time ever, I'm writing to an outline. It was kind of rough figuring out how to make one - that is, how to find the story, how to find what happens next without going through the actual process of writing character - and then wrangling it into some semblance of motivational consistency, but it's complete just in time. I know some people just can't write with an outline and I thought I would be one of those people, but I'm feeling pretty good about this.

Without one, I kept getting lost, driving into a wide-open gulf where there were too many possibilities and nothing seemed right, or into a tangled knot where nothing works. And I know a lot of people say they can't write with an outline because when they write, they get the drive to push forward because they want to know what happens next - but I found myself charging through scenes as fast as possible, no tension or buildup, beyond-minimal description, because I wanted to know what happened next way more than I cared about giving the current scenes the attention they deserved.

Outlines rock. I have always used an outline. I can't imagine trying to write a novel without an outline. *shudder* I usually even outline my short stories!

Oh, I'm also expecting to celebrate my first short story rejection soon! Lots of anticipation here.

:cheers:

[Derfel Cadarn]

This is my first 2nd draft , any tips? Im doing it in 3 chapter blocks, going back to the '1st' chqpter after finishing the '3rd' to let the edits breathe.

[Ebenstone]

This is my first 2nd draft , any tips? Im doing it in 3 chapter blocks, going back to the '1st' chqpter after finishing the '3rd' to let the edits breathe.

This always helped me:

http://hollylisle.com/one-pass-manuscript-revision-from-first-draft-to-last-in-one-cycle/

[Reposado]

i signed up for the writers board and i can log in, but i don't see any posts related to writing, im guessing that someone needs to clear me. is this correct?

[Durckad]

Outlines rock. I have always used an outline. I can't imagine trying to write a novel without an outline. *shudder* I usually even outline my short stories!

I agree, though I likely wouldn't have several months ago. "Outlines? Pshaw! I Write by the seat of my pants!" Well, apparently my pants aren't a very good source of inspiration since once I finally did an outline, I started making some actual, real progress. It certainly helped that I finally got pas that 'beginning syndrome' and I'm starting to push into the real meat of my story.

These past few weeks have been very good and I've only been getting better at staying focused. I still need to get better but any improvement is worthwhile.

[Zoë Sumra]

This is my first 2nd draft , any tips? Im doing it in 3 chapter blocks, going back to the '1st' chqpter after finishing the '3rd' to let the edits breathe.

If you can make the Holly Lisle fix-everything-at-once method (which Ebenstone suggested) work, good on you. I can't, yet, though I'm getting closer.

It's your first second + draft. You need to work out at the moment what's best for you. Getting into single-run second drafts can wait till you've honed your technique.

I tend to do three late drafts. Firstly I go through for excess content, both in terms of whole chapters that aren't necessary (or two chapters that could be squished into one without losing important plot points) and in terms of dialogue and action that is over-long or just unnecessary within chapters that need to stay where they are. One of my specific weaknesses is that my characters will often spend too long in first drafts talking about what they're going to do or making plans that would be better left unsaid (the readers can find out what happens later). Arguments carried out in too many insults, dialogue that just goes on too long, paragraphs that just go on too long... it's all just unnecessary, for whatever reason.

After that - when the content is pretty much set - I spend a third draft honing the language and a fourth draft (more of a re-read) making sure all the plot points that need to make sense do so, the characters and props start scenes in the right places, the blocking works, so on, so forth. It's at this stage that I may find I need to add tiny snatches of background details early on in the book in order to bring them out later.

In terms of three-chapter blocks versus any other method, I prefer to go through the whole thing for content and then for language rather than chopping and changing. I just find it easier to stick to one task before thinking about the next. It's also worth making sure that you run through it at some point in at least two different formats - e.g. read it on a Word screen and also a printed out Word document and maybe on an ereader. At the moment my second and third passes happen on a printed out Word document and the fourth happens on my Kindle. It helps stop you getting so used to the physical way it looks that you miss something - I read Rough Diamond several times before I got it onto the Kindle and noticed it had been missing a critical "was" in one sentence for some time.

If concentrating on three chapters at a time works for you, then it works for you. There isn't a right way to do it. I can tell you what works for me, and other people can tell you what works for them, but that isn't to say our methods will work for you. You might want to take some bits from one and some from another and make up the rest on your own...

ETA: Bear in mind that as a general rule, you will have written between 10% and 20% too much in your first draft.

[Francis Buck]

Well, I've started what is basically the second re-write of my first novel Perennials/Blood and the Moon, a merger of the crime and vampire genres (still out on the title...Perennials was the original one, and I still like it, but I fear for its marketability). I haven't really worked on this thing for going two years now, and it's truly amazing how much better I've become. There's almost nothing in it that isn't seeing major changes (at least writing-wise...I'm still fairly content and occasionally even a little proud of the storytelling). But the prose, style, characterization...much work is needed. I hope to be done with rewrites by the end of summer, when I shall begin writing my fantasy proper (fucking finally; I want to work on this so bad, I refuse to let me my other sit in the dust), while also sending out a bajillion queries to publishers for Perennials.

[Starkess]

Been having a very unproductive couple months. Thinking about hanging up my keyboard. I've been writing for literally as long as I can remember. I finished my first novel manuscript over a decade ago. I've spent hours and hours, devoted a fair chunk of my life to this...and I dunno. I just don't think I have It. My writing is decent enough that I can trick myself into thinking it's good, but it's not really good enough to ever be successful. So it might make more sense to stop torturing myself over this and just accept that at some point we have to realize that we're never going to be the ballerina or the fireman or whatever we thought we would when we were kids.

[Ebenstone]

Been having a very unproductive couple months. Thinking about hanging up my keyboard. I've been writing for literally as long as I can remember. I finished my first novel manuscript over a decade ago. I've spent hours and hours, devoted a fair chunk of my life to this...and I dunno. I just don't think I have It. My writing is decent enough that I can trick myself into thinking it's good, but it's not really good enough to ever be successful. So it might make more sense to stop torturing myself over this and just accept that at some point we have to realize that we're never going to be the ballerina or the fireman or whatever we thought we would when we were kids.

Nora, let me say this about writing: if you can give it up, then do so. I've been at the point you are at many, many times in my life....as recent as last year....and each time I tried "quitting" writing, I couldn't. The siren's call of pen/paper or the keyboard were too strong for me to ignore. I think you'll find the same thing.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

Been having a very unproductive couple months. Thinking about hanging up my keyboard. I've been writing for literally as long as I can remember. I finished my first novel manuscript over a decade ago. I've spent hours and hours, devoted a fair chunk of my life to this...and I dunno. I just don't think I have It. My writing is decent enough that I can trick myself into thinking it's good, but it's not really good enough to ever be successful. So it might make more sense to stop torturing myself over this and just accept that at some point we have to realize that we're never going to be the ballerina or the fireman or whatever we thought we would when we were kids.

I'd say don't give up. We all go through this feeling, I go through it about six times a week. I dedicated the last 10 years to a single book that I ended up self publishing, and no matter how I look at that--to any would be writer, it is still a blow to the ego. Don't stop, keep going, screw that asshole in your head who is telling you that you can't do this. I have one too. Multiple assholes talking to me in my head.

That sounds kind of serious doesn't it?

[TrackerNeil]

I'd say don't give up. We all go through this feeling, I go through it about six times a week. I dedicated the last 10 years to a single book that I ended up self publishing, and no matter how I look at that--to any would be writer, it is still a blow to the ego. Don't stop, keep going, screw that asshole in your head who is telling you that you can't do this. I have one too. Multiple assholes talking to me in my head.

Besides, there are a zillion real-life assholes who are more than willing to take shots at your ego. You do not need to give them rent-free space in your head.

[henderson]

Just finishing up the draft of the eighth story and it will be about 87,000 words.

[Isalie]

Concerning writing, I say, if you think it's fun enough, then do it, if not, then don't. Unless it's your dayjob, there really is no reason to keep doing it if all it does is fill you with self doubt.

[Starkess]

Nora, let me say this about writing: if you can give it up, then do so. I've been at the point you are at many, many times in my life....as recent as last year....and each time I tried "quitting" writing, I couldn't. The siren's call of pen/paper or the keyboard were too strong for me to ignore. I think you'll find the same thing.

I've tried quitting before...I actually was away from writing for a couple years. And coming back to it was awesome. But now I feel like I'm just back in the same frustrated cycle. And I can't tell if the amount that I will miss it makes up for the grief it causes me.

Concerning writing, I say, if you think it's fun enough, then do it, if not, then don't. Unless it's your dayjob, there really is no reason to keep doing it if all it does is fill you with self doubt.

That's my thought, too, but it's hard to quantify it. Does the good make the bad worth it? I used to think so, but now I doubt that.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Good progress today. Another 2500 words on the rewrite.

[JohnWitch]

This has probably been asked already. But how much do you guys write per day? On average, I mean.

I started my novel some two weeks ago. Couldn't write on four of those days because I was not at home. I wrote an average of 3000 words a day, on the other ten. Is this considered good? Reasonable?

Anyway, I really want to finish the first draft this summer. 30k words, I'll need at least 80 k more, damnit.

[Ebenstone]

I'm a streaky writer. When I'm rolling I'm between 1500-3000 words a day, depends on what's gong on. I'm busy with real life...we all are. I have a very active 4 year old running around plus don't believe that myth of teachers getting the summers off either. But when I'm rolling, I roll. I've written in notebooks, napkins and my iPhone when I've been in the midst of significant writing. Usually it comes unplanned or unintended...when I "plan" on 10k weekends or something like that I almost always fall short. If this helps, so far in 2012, I've written about 267k words. This includes blog posts, new fiction and rewritten fiction. So I average about 1200 words a day.