Eyron Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 The best modern analogy I can come up with is cycling. There is a world of difference between how titanium framed bike handles versus a chomoly frame. Titanium is much lighter and more expensive. While having a lighter frame won't suddenly turn you into Lance Armstrong, it will give you an advantage over someone of equal skill but a lessor frame.Specifically speaking about Valyrian steel, it is both lighter and stronger than castle forged steel, and doesn't need sharpening. This is why families can hand down a valyrian steel sword for generations, while the lifespan of a regular sword is mahaps a generation or two. With it being lighter, it is much easier to handle. For example, Longclaw, a bastard sword of valyrian steel, handles as easily as a one-handed sword of castle forged steel. Jon noticed how much he missed Longclaw when sparring with Mance Rayder outside Castle Black.Precisely the moment I was thinking of too, when Jon fought Mance.That the Valyrian sword is lighter means you don't wear out so fast, besides having a sharper and harder weapon. Against an equal opponent you will keep your strength longer and that could give you the advantage that is needed to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen of Spades Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Also a Valyrian blade won't break. Remember how the Hound's sword broke when he killed the Frey knights at the Twins ? Would not have happened with a Valyrian sword.And of course, these blades are handsome ! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 There's another advantage not yet discussed here (and perhaps why Jonny got Longclaw in the first place). Valyrian steel can kill...the Others.At least that's what I remember from the books.It's obsidian that's proven to kill them, not Valyrian steel. Jon and Sam think that "dragonsteel" means "Valyrian steel," but that isn't confirmed anywhere. It may end up being the case, but it shouldn't be taken as a given. And actually, for Sam and Jon to think dragonsteel is Valyrian steel, that only makes me think that it's actually something else entirely. :PThat, and the Battle for the Dawn supposedly took place long, long before Valyrian steel even existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I'm not aware of one. They might be sharper, of better quality and/or easier to maintain, but a lousy swordsman isn't going to become a great one just because he has a Valyrian blade. Likewise, a great swordsman is still great without a Valyrian sword. I think they're mostly status symbols, and only then because of their scarcity.Which is why the bitching about how unfair it is for Jon to be given Longclaw is so baffling.I don't think it was unfair for Jon to be given Longclaw, but I do think it was baffling considering how much time GRRM spends explaining how important they are as family heirlooms. Jorah denied his descendants this heirloom when he gave it to Jon. It can be argued that as a member of the Night's Watch, but I can't help believing that there was another reason that Jorah removed this sword from his family's inheritance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ben Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Well in the ASOIAF Roleplaying Game the weapon gives you +1 to hit and +1 base damage.... kind of meh.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I don't think it was unfair for Jon to be given Longclaw, but I do think it was baffling considering how much time GRRM spends explaining how important they are as family heirlooms. Jorah denied his descendants this heirloom when he gave it to Jon. It can be argued that as a member of the Night's Watch, but I can't help believing that there was another reason that Jorah removed this sword from his family's inheritance.Far as I'm concerned, Maege removed it from the family's inheritance when she brought the sword to Jeor instead of keeping it on Bear Island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howling Mad Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Far as I'm concerned, Maege removed it from the family's inheritance when she brought the sword to Jeor instead of keeping it on Bear Island.Jeor Mormont removed it from the family's inheritance when he gave it to Jon Snow :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artos Stark Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Far as I'm concerned, Maege removed it from the family's inheritance when she brought the sword to Jeor instead of keeping it on Bear Island.It always made me wonder how the Mormonts got a sword of that quality to begin with, did they buy it or win it or what? They are supposed to be a poor house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Far as I'm concerned, Maege removed it from the family's inheritance when she brought the sword to Jeor instead of keeping it on Bear Island.I don't see how bringing the sword to her brother is removing it from the family's inheritance. Even with all of the vows, the Night's Watchmen don't totally give up their ties with their family. Jeor still thinks of his actual family as his family and talks about Jorah's last honorable act was leaving the sword behind. It doesn't seem like a reach to think that Jeor asked Maege if he could hold on to this sword for a while and she agreed thinking it would be returned on the next visit but it does seem like a stretch that she would agree with the intention of allowing the family heirloom to be taken completely out of the hands of the family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artos Stark Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I echo alot of the things said in this thread. It is lighter, sharper and stronger. It can make a good fighter a great fighter. It was enough to keep Ned Stark and Howland Reed alive against Arthur Dayne when by all rights they both should have been dead meat. That would have been an interesting to see that battle, Ice vs. Dawn. Would have been more interesting to see Brandon with Ice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pallantides Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Thing about Valyrian steel being lighter, how much lighter? Swords as a whole, are at a relatively perfect weight as it is, and do not weigh much at all. A one handed sword being in the realm of a little under 2 pounds, or slightly over. A two handed longsword being possibly 2.5-3 pounds, and a very large war sword being in the realm of 3.5-4 pounds.If you have a one handed sword that is less than the standard weight (which remained relatively constant all throughout the history of swords being used), it does not have the heft to do what it was designed to do properly. So if it reduces the weight by a pound, that cuts off a significant amount of weight from the sword, which the sword needs to be effective. If it's only a couple of ounces lighter, it doesn't make much of a difference.As for resistance, you're only going to really see a sword being broken if it's being used to make a static block on its edge at 90 degrees. That sort of block rarely if ever happened, and using a sword to parry was generally done at an oblique angle. You would not get any notches in your blade this way. Obviously making a static 90 degree block with a typical sword, is not going to fare very well against a Valyrian blade, but then the person who is making that sort of defense with their sword is not what I would call a competent swordsman.I would say the advantage to a Valyrian sword is 1) The sword's ability to keep an edge, therefore less time is spent sharpening it. 2) The sword's toughness (i.e. ability to withstand scratches, taking a set, and bending, meaning you don't have to spend as much time to maintain your sword) 3) The hardness of the edge (meaning that it will defeat a softer metal. It still will not cleave plate in two, but it will bite into it and cause some fairly substantial damage to the armour. This is also relevant if one is making a static block with a sword. The sword with the softer edge will be more likely to chip and become notched. Swords of similar edge hardness will do equal damage to each respective edge when struck, while in this case the softer sword will not cause damage to the harder edge. Also related to toughness.)I don't think the lightness of the sword is as much of a factor (because if it's too light it's useless as a sword, and if it is only marginally lighter the difference is relatively insignificant), as it is that you know you have a superior sword, and would not have to worry about it as much, meaning that you can fight all the more harder with it. With your typical sword, you have to keep in mind of your edge, and the integrity of the blade. If you're facing multiple people, it doesn't matter if you kill one of your opponents if you end up breaking your sword to do it, as you're left without a sword and still have more people to face. Likewise if you break your sword in single combat and fail to kill or incapacitate your opponent, you're basically SOL.In my opinion the advantage of a Valyrian blade is that it's a sword that you don't have to think about using in combat, and don't really have to be mindful of damaging, which is also in my opinion a superior advantage than it being "lighter". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teal'c Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 There's another advantage not yet discussed here (and perhaps why Jonny got Longclaw in the first place). Valyrian steel can kill...the Others. At least that's what I remember from the books. I think here is the crux of the matter. This is one more thing that has been forgotten in 8000 years. People know that Valyrian weapons are precious, and here is why:With a regular sword you can kill a wight; with an obsidian weapon you can kill an Other. With a Valyrian steel weapon you can kill either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Númenórean Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I echo alot of the things said in this thread. It is lighter, sharper and stronger. It can make a good fighter a great fighter. It was enough to keep Ned Stark and Howland Reed alive against Arthur Dayne when by all rights they both should have been dead meat. That would have been an interesting to see that battle, Ice vs. Dawn. Would have been more interesting to see Brandon with Ice Were we ever given textual evidence that Ned went to ToJ with Ice? I was always under the impression it was used mostly ceremoniously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Númenórean Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I think here is the crux of the matter. This is one more thing that has been forgotten in 8000 years. People know that Valyrian weapons are precious, and here is why: With a regular sword you can kill a wight; with an obsidian weapon you can kill an Other. With a Valyrian steel weapon you can kill either. Id like to think that the secret of Valyrian steel is that its actually somehow fusing obsidian and steel. Explains the dark coloration of the steel. Just my own crackpot theory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AryasPinCushion Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Definitely the best sword you can get, lighter and more durable. I agree that they are a status symbol as we see how much Tywin would have liked to have one in the family. He got his hands on ice and turned it into two swords, oathkeeper for Jaime and one for Joffrey cant remember its name. Widow's Wail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevumar Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I'm not aware of one. They might be sharper, of better quality and/or easier to maintain, but a lousy swordsman isn't going to become a great one just because he has a Valyrian blade. Likewise, a great swordsman is still great without a Valyrian sword. I think they're mostly status symbols, and only then because of their scarcity.As other posters have stated, the quality of a weapon does make a big difference in the wielder's performance. Obviously, it's not going to make a unskilled swordsman into a prodigy, but it's a big advantage over being armed with standard-issue steel. It probably makes for faster kills and more reliable handling in battle, not to mention superior resistance to wear and damage. They're definitely more than mere status symbols.Which is why the bitching about how unfair it is for Jon to be given Longclaw is so baffling.The fact that Jeor gave it away knowing what it meant is baffling to me. These are among the most valuable family heirlooms in the world, things that are handed down and prized for centuries. Even if Dacey didn't want it, he probably should have thought of Alysane's son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hear Us Roar Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 + Status symbol+ Lighter and faster than ordinary steel- Just another sword on the battlefield and a guy with a worse sword can still mess you up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuisDantas Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 It always made me wonder how the Mormonts got a sword of that quality to begin with, did they buy it or win it or what? They are supposed to be a poor house. Poor, yes, but not necessarily in financial trouble. I gather that Valyrian steel swords used to be somewhat less rare and expensive before the Doom of Valyria, and they seem to be actually cheaper to keep and maintain than ordinary steel, so once they had it there was little incentive to depart from it.Selling Longclaw would certainly be possible (Tywin Lannister tried and failed to buy a Valyrian sword for years) but it seems to me that they are not in dire need of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevumar Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Poor, yes, but not necessarily in financial trouble. I gather that Valyrian steel swords used to be somewhat less rare and expensive before the Doom of Valyria, and they seem to be actually cheaper to keep and maintain than ordinary steel, so once they had it there was little incentive to depart from it.Less rare, yes, but probably still expensive and valuable. We only have evidence of Valyrian steel used in the making of a small number of objects, usually weapons. That could indicate that even when the means of production was known, it was too valuable to use for any other purpose.Selling Longclaw would certainly be possible (Tywin Lannister tried and failed to buy a Valyrian sword for years) but it seems to me that they are not in dire need of money. Tywin's failure to buy a sword seems to show that nobody with any sense would part with one easily or for mere money. Plus, the culture on Bear Island looks to be fairly rugged and uninterested in most kinds of luxuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKindlyMan Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I think Jon says it best himself (some time after he becomes LC and starts sparring daily) that he has an amazing sword, and his skill needs to match it to be truly formidable. I think here is the crux of the matter. This is one more thing that has been forgotten in 8000 years. People know that Valyrian weapons are precious, and here is why: With a regular sword you can kill a wight; with an obsidian weapon you can kill an Other. With a Valyrian steel weapon you can kill either. I thought you had to use fire to kill a wight, but fire won't kill an Other as easily, so you need obsidian or dragonsteel.ETA: too lazy to find the quotes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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