Lady Hodor Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 So just re-reading a Feast For Crows, and something cropped up that made me question Jaime's fickle morals.He is talking to Ilyn Payne about the time Arya and Nymeria kicked Joffrey's ass on the kingsroad.This is Jaime talking, page 570 -"He slashed at a tree branch, shearing it in half. 'As I was fucking her, Cersei cried I want. I thought that she meant me, but it was the Stark girl she wanted, maimed or dead' the things I do for love. ' It was only by chance that Stark's own men found the girl before me. If I had come on her first...' The pockmarks on Ser Ilyn's face were black holes in the torchlight, as dark as Jaime's soul."Do you think he would have killed Arya? He was more than willing to kill Bran.But Arya was a girl, and he might have appreciated her brash boldness, a trait he has himself.Plus he had little to gain in killing her, whereas eliminating Bran kept his secret relationship safe.I don't think Jaime is evil, but contemplating killing two children under the age of ten? That's pretty bad.I dont reckon he would now, in the time frame of a Dance with Dragons, but his conscience has developed a lot.But what of then back when he was still with Cersei? It seems being with her makes him cruel, cruel enough to kill Arya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malace ixo Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 You pose a good question. I never thought to second-guess a POV like that one.Brienne's lack of conformity to his understanding of women definitely stirred something in Jaime, even early on. I always thought it was her rejection of sexuality against his utter dominance that did it, coupled with the fact she knew the joys of battle as he did. But if her courage was also a stimulus for part of that reaction I could definitely see Arya earning her way past his judgement. And you're right, it's not like killing her would have been to protect any secret. But Cersei is a vicious woman... and he didn't hesitate to push Bran out of love for her. I couldn't say either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lummel Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I always read that as yes he would have killed Arya without a moment's thought. Love is a sweet poison. Love is the bane of honour. That is why in retrospect he is glad that Stark's men found her first and why he is so angry at himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwvapor Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Like a robot he'd do it. As Cersei commands--his only emotion left is his devotion to Cersei.Even love for his children are killed by their need for secrecy.His love for his job was killed when the King revealed how he got his position.His love for Tyrion is tainted by the secret he keeps from him.The people hate him yet he saved them by killing the King and his plan to burn the city to ashes, but he killed the emotions involved here too when he did not reveal the true reason behind his actions and let Ned Stark have his misunderstanding.Until his extended vacation away from all this--he never had time to do any soul-searching. Luckily this robot got the reprogramming, it's never too late to find a personality or rather find his humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Hodor Posted May 13, 2012 Author Share Posted May 13, 2012 I find it shocking how much he has changed since he and Cersei ceased in making the beast with two backs (Sorry, I'm studying Othello atm).At the beginning he was willing to murder Bran and Arya at her whim, yet by DWD he asked Brienne to find Sansa and save her from Cersei's wrath.Seems like Cersei is a poison. Look what happened to Lancel, wounded and dilusional, and Kettleblack was tortured.Watch out Moon Boy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkey Jack Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I think much of Jaimes confessions to the mute Ilyn will be heard by Bran, Bran will forgive him and his journey into a true knight will be complete when he battles the Others at the trident with the other knights the CotF gather for the final battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan the Clever Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Killing children isn't worse than killing adults. It's murder all the same.Jaime would have killed her if and only if he thought he had to. Which he probably wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Lannister Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Nah, but I'm sure he'd have taken a hand for supposedly striking Joff. Straight up killing her would be absurdly stupid.Who knows, though? The things he does for love... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckwheat Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I think he would have killed her, that is why he is happy later that he was not the one who found her. He pushed Brandon out of the window, I do not think he would have stopped at Arya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'll pay the iron price Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I hope not!Arya is my favourite out of all the Stark children Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7V3N Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 He was a puppet for Cersei. Yes, he would have. To please Cersei. And she knew this, and used him all the time because he would do anything for her. That is why he constantly remembers Tyrion's words: "Cersei is a lying whore, she's been fucking Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack and probably Moon Boy for all I know." That is why him burning her letter of desperation was so big for his character--he finally realized/accepted that he was just being used and was done. He was no longer another one of Cersei's horny swords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 God Cersei is a fucking idiot. Kill Ned Stark's child for hitting Joff?I find it hard to believe either of them would have gone through with that. "Yea, Lord Stark, your girl is dead.""WHAT THE FUCK WHY?!?!? HOW?!?!""I killed her"The King was with them at this point, right? I mean come on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thendel Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I think you guys are overestimating Cersei's hold over Jaime at the time. Yes, she made most of the decisions in life for him, but he was by no means a robot. For one, he didn't comform his opinions on things to what she said: He wanted to end the secrecy of their relationship, she repeatedly told him no, but he voiced them from time to time.Killing Arya would be completely idiotic, so say the least, from anyone's point of view but Cersei. Arya's the daughter of the lord of Winterfell, the Warden of the North and the freaking Hand of the King. A cruel and stupid man would return with her corpse just because Cersei, and no one else, said so. Jaime was neither of these, and he wouldn't get his knickers in a twist over Joffrey bleeding a little. Robert has done worse things to him, and I'd be surprised if Jaime held grudges over that, given that he didn't love Joffrey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artos Stark Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I think he would have, Jaime didn't care about people being young, old or female early in the series. Jaime now wouldn't do it but the Jaime in GOT certainly would have, especially if this was Cersei's wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Gathers Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I have a feeling he would kill her if he was sent to do it that moment, but after ADWD I strongly doubt he would do it. He almost hates Cersei as much as Tyrion does by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'll pay the iron price Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I have a feeling he would kill her if he was sent to do it that moment, but after ADWD I strongly doubt he would do it. He almost hates Cersei as much as Tyrion by now.Jamie doesnt hate Tyrion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7V3N Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Jamie doesnt hate Tyrion?I think the person meant as much as Tyrion hates Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'll pay the iron price Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I think the person meant as much as Tyrion hates Cersei.My mistake, Sorry :bang: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howling Mad Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Ye he would have killed. As others have posted Jaime is expressing regret for the man he used to be or wishes he still was. Losing a hand cost him his lack of conscious which he laments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Gathers Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Jamie doesnt hate Tyrion?Edited for easier understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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