Why Renly Rebelled?

[LuisDantas]

I always thought that Renly's best move would have been to take Stannis' offer of bending the knee and getting his old position back and being named Stannis' heir until he should have a son. Then all Renly and the Tyrell's would have to do is make sure that Stannis didn't survive the war and presto Renly has just gained the loyalty of all of Stannis' bannermen without putting them at the point of a sword and he would also have the rightful claim to the throne.

What would the point be? He would be lending Stannis legitimacy needlessly, and hurting his own claim while at it.

Not to mention that Renly has no more proof of Joffrey's bastardy than Stannis has. Why would he risk his troops and neck for Stannis when he never had to?

Of course it would have be doomed to fail because of Melisandre and her visions but that can't really be held against Renly or the Tyrells. I mean of all the claimants to the throne who could have predicited that it would be old stick-in-the-mud Stannis Baratheon who would bring crazy demon babies and future seeing witches to the table?

It's actually a good question with no obvious answer. We don't know yet how well exactly Davos and Renly knew Stannis.

[jarl the climber]

The thing to keep in mind about Renly is he lost his parents at a very young age before he really knew them and was raised by various servants and tutors, Robert gave him Storms End at a very young age and there were always various Lords and knights there fawning over him trying to gain influence over the young Lord. Renly developed into an extrovert, he met Loras because he was sent there to be his squire.

Renly did not like and was detested in return by the queen and Joffrey. Who knows what had been whispered in his ears all these years by these various people but most people saw Joff as Cerseis son not Roberts and that his reign would favor the Lannisters. On a practical level usurping Joff and his siblings meant that the loans to the Lannisters would never be repaid.

As far as Stannis goes, he was not loved by the Storm Lords and hated and feared by the Tyrells. The Dornish probaly orefered Renly over Stannis.

[Batman]

If he doesn't want the throne, there was certainly no one pressuring him away from supporting Renly.

Stannis wants the throne a whole lot, make no mistake. He claims to have no choice, but that is only a personal affectation that he developed out of his insecurities.

Now we are in the interpretation area. Stannis would be a useless character if he was working for his own desire for power, there are ten million characters in the series like that, boring.

[LuisDantas]

Do Stannis leave any room for doubt about whether he desires power or not?

Remember when he mentioned Proudwing? He even told Davos straight out, letter for letter, that it was for access to her power that he allied with Melisandre.

To the extent that it is interpretation, you might as well say that it is also interpretation to say that styles himself as King.

[Toccs]

What would the point be? He would be lending Stannis legitimacy needlessly, and hurting his own claim while at it.

Joining Stannis and being named his heir cannot possibly hurt Renly's claim, it only makes it stronger as once Stannis is dead Renly becomes the rightful king.

Technically Renly would already be Stannis heir if Stannis didn't survive the war, but the fact that Renly declared himself king and thus became a rebel ruins all of that. So Renly's claim is already about as weak as it could get, joining Stannis and being named heir can only strengthen it.

[LuisDantas]

You keep refusing to acknowledge that Renly had a claim at all, don't you? One at odds with the letter of the law, for what little it matters, but he did have one.

[Toccs]

I'm not refusing to acknowledge his claim, I am saying that his claim was the weakest out of everyone.

I'm saying that if he had accepted Stannis' offer and been named Stannis' heir, then instead of being the youngest brother who decided to skip the line of succession and sieze the throne, he would be the youngest brother to whom the throne has been passed to. That in my mind would be the smartest move for him to make in terms of political fallout once the war is over.

If Melisandre wasn't there I don't doubt that Renly could have crushed Stannis and then taken King's Landing, but he would be doing it against all laws regarding the succession. Whereas if he inherited his claim through Stannis' unfortunate death then he would be 100% legally in the right, and that makes his claim stronger then it was on his own.

[Gingerly Grumkin]

I'm not refusing to acknowledge his claim, I am saying that his claim was the weakest out of everyone.

I'm saying that if he had accepted Stannis' offer and been named Stannis' heir, then instead of being the youngest brother who decided to skip the line of succession and sieze the throne, he would be the youngest brother to whom the throne has been passed to. That in my mind would be the smartest move for him to make in terms of political fallout once the war is over.

If Melisandre wasn't there I don't doubt that Renly could have crushed Stannis and then taken King's Landing, but he would be doing it against all laws regarding the succession. Whereas if he inherited his claim through Stannis' unfortunate death then he would be 100% legally in the right, and that makes his claim stronger then it was on his own.

I don't think that's 100% right. Henry I was a third younger brother, like Renly. And defeated the middle aged brother to become the King of England.

And Renly was an idiot, he may have taken out Stannis. He sent his vanguard away, along with the rest of his court, food, extra horses far from the battle. And he was going to charge into Stannis and the sun rise! And he didn't lead the charge, despite being King and coming from a very wartime family, nor did he send Randyll Tarly who is arguably the best general in Westeros. He sent 15 year old Loras to lead the attack. So many things wrong with that battle, I think Stannis could have pulled it off.

And to answer why Renly Rebelled?

He thought outside the box :D

ETA. But now that I'm thinking about it, it was a good call. If Stannis won and Renly was proclaimed heir (which he would be in time with an almost 100% chance) Then you still have the Usurpers to deal with. Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella would always be a threat, as will there children be. And Dany is still alive, much known to Renly, so theirs another threat for the heir. If Renly's crowning prooved anything it's that people (Tyrell bannermen) make kings not the law. By the time Stannis dies it may be in the Westeros Lords intrests to put a Lannister or a Targaryen on the throne. Heir is good, but not as good as the King

[Jamie Lannister]

Victors write history, though. If Renly had won, then would people really be talking about how the lovable new king had unlawfully usurped the crown from his brother? Probably not, since Stannis would be surely be vilified and forgotten in time.

Don't get me wrong... I don't think Renly was in the right. He was setting a very dangerous precedent with his "fuck lawful succession; I have the bigger army!" approach, but it could have worked out well for him.

[Toccs]

And there's the whole thing that Renly didn't know about the twincest at the time, so as far he knew he was not only bypassing Stannis' claim, but also Robert's children. In the Baratheon family tree he was as far away from the throne as he could possibly be.

Turning on your own family and sweeping into power with the flimsiest of claims and then fillng all of the powerful positions with Tyrells or their bannermen seems like a surefire way to have the rest of the realm unite against you.

[Gingerly Grumkin]

And there's the whole thing that Renly didn't know about the twincest at the time, so as far he knew he was not only bypassing Stannis' claim, but also Robert's children. In the Baratheon family tree he was as far away from the throne as he could possibly be.

Turning on your own family and sweeping into power with the flimsiest of claims and then fillng all of the powerful positions with Tyrells or their bannermen seems like a surefire way to have the rest of the realm unite against you.

He tried to get the Lannister kids replaced with Margery's future kids, a slight that Cersei knows and remembers. There are glimmers of hope in his strategy though. He knows about Stannis' lack of soldiers and he knows of the Dornishmens hatred for the Lannisters (I have no idea how he turned that into love of Baratheon though) He knew of the Arryns Greyjoys Tully and Starks hatred for Lannisters as well. He did ok with peace talks with his lords, but really nobody cares who's king unless it's themselves or there enemy. But at the end of the day he was in charge of the knights of summer, which is very fitting because he was the king of summer